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  • #16
    "MRLS seems to be overkill..."

    I'm unaware of Israel operating armed drones. Minskaya would know if so. However, you've still the question of capability linked to the logistics of maintaining an armed drone presence near-constantly over Gazan skies. It must be that way to have a REMOTE chance of interdicting these rocket teams AFTER they've fired.

    Even then, Gazan pop. densities assure the very high likelihood of collateral casualties. That should be evident from FATAville.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    • #17
      Originally posted by S2 View Post
      "MRLS seems to be overkill..."

      I'm unaware of Israel operating armed drones. Minskaya would know if so. However, you've still the question of capability linked to the logistics of maintaining an armed drone presence near-constantly over Gazan skies. It must be that way to have a REMOTE chance of interdicting these rocket teams AFTER they've fired.
      I thought they can fly without interruption for a long time. IDF can put few reconnaissance UAVs which will give the coordinates and then I am sure they have systems to target the launchers.

      There must be a chance to hit the launchers before they fire. Just make anyone with a tube in the hands or on the shoulders (too late) a target

      Now this is too easy, I must be doing something wrong.



      Even then, Gazan pop. densities assure the very high likelihood of collateral casualties. That should be evident from FATAville.
      Which confused me when M said they use MRLS as a retaliation tool.

      I preferred when they were sending bulldozers to level the houses of the suiciders.
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        It did not take Israel long to respond. Looks like Hamas baited Israel to put on a show to get the Qataris to open their wallets.

        Here's how it got reported in my part of the world.

        [U]The attacks came at a time when Qatar's Emir is visiting the shunned coastal Strip in an unprecedented political recognition for its Islamic rulers..
        The attacks came after the Emir had left and the deal had been done. The attacks were to demonstrate that yes, they were worth the money he was giving them.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
          Why are Hamas launching rockets now? What did Israel do this time?
          same thing it always did. it exists. that seems like good enough reason for them.
          "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post

            Which confused me when M said they use MRLS as a retaliation tool.
            .
            They don't. She said it as a suggestion, not that that's what they do.
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              The attacks came after the Emir had left and the deal had been done. The attacks were to demonstrate that yes, they were worth the money he was giving them.
              Very good

              It makes me wonder who is the beneficiary of the Hamas attacking Israel & vice versa.

              Beause its hard to understand how the people of either side benefit from it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by S2 View Post
                I'm unaware of Israel operating armed drones. Minskaya would know if so.
                Israel does not acknowledge armed drones. Let's just say the larger IAF drones are Hellfire capable and have the requisite pylons.

                Originally posted by S2 View Post
                However, you've still the question of capability linked to the logistics of maintaining an armed drone presence near-constantly over Gazan skies. It must be that way to have a REMOTE chance of interdicting these rocket teams AFTER they've fired.
                Israeli drones can patrol for 24+ hours. There is also the lase (drone) and attack (Apache) option. With a primed helo, T3 (time-to-target) is probably < 7 minutes.

                Originally posted by S2 View Post
                Even then, Gazan pop. densities assure the very high likelihood of collateral casualties. That should be evident from FATAville.
                There's the rub. Hamas fires from schoolyards etc. and hopes for civilian casualties which stirs international sympathy.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  They don't. She said it as a suggestion, not that that's what they do.
                  Got it. The bold part confused me.

                  Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                  We used these in Lebanon. Very nasty. For every Hamas rocket out, a rack of these go in.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                    This is sickening. I have some questions:

                    Who is manufacturing these HAMAS rockets?

                    Could the timing of this attack be related to the US Election? - (trying to force a response from Israel and a consequent response from the US?)
                    Hamas makes the rockets, they rip out plumbing pipes, pack in powder as both an explosive and propellant. Except for the use of metal sheathing via the plumbing pipes they are pretty much the same technology as used against the British in India, who adopted it and used in against US in the war of 1812 giving us our national anthem... Unguided, short range, weak explosive power, purely am area bombardment or terror weapon.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                      Israel does not acknowledge armed drones. Let's just say the larger IAF drones are Hellfire capable and have the requisite pylons.


                      Israeli drones can patrol for 24+ hours. There is also the lase (drone) and attack (Apache) option. With a primed helo, T3 (time-to-target) is probably < 7 minutes.


                      There's the rub. Hamas fires from schoolyards etc. and hopes for civilian casualties which stirs international sympathy.
                      Israel needs to modify a C-130 and put it on a race track pattern over Gaza.... Rocket team meet Spectre. Use DIME warheads and you have an almost perfect airborne attack dog.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        Israel needs to modify a C-130 and put it on a race track pattern over Gaza.... Rocket team meet Spectre. Use DIME warheads and you have an almost perfect airborne attack dog.
                        The IAF once sent me here to the United States as an observer. One of the USAF people I met was a female AC-130 gunship pilot. IIRC, her call sign was Dark Angel. We shot the shit for a couple hours ;)

                        sigpic

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Hamas makes the rockets, they rip out plumbing pipes, pack in powder as both an explosive and propellant...
                          ...and then blame the Israeli blockade for the sanitation issues that result from weaponizing your municipal sewage system. Gotta love it.
                          "Nature abhors a moron." - H.L. Mencken

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Israel needs to modify a C-130 and put it on a race track pattern over Gaza.... Rocket team meet Spectre. Use DIME warheads and you have an almost perfect airborne attack dog.
                            Doesn't Israel have something like the Reaper?

                            Have a single Reapers circling over Gaza with 4 hell fires and 2x7 packs of APKWS. That gives 14 laser guided low collateral damage weapons on each drone plus 4 backups for harder targets. As Gaza is roughly 25 x 7 miles that drone can get in firing range anywhere within about 5 min. Any rocket teams still within the launch area would meet Allah right quick.

                            If there are a limited number of useable launch areas any team that sets up for delayed launch would still have a good chance of being spotted while setting up. With Gorgon Stare / Argus 2 Reapers can cover~50% of Gaza with continuous surveillance, and the ability for immediate attack.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by citanon View Post
                              Doesn't Israel have something like the Reaper?

                              Have a single Reapers circling over Gaza with 4 hell fires and 2x7 packs of APKWS. That gives 14 laser guided low collateral damage weapons on each drone plus 4 backups for harder targets. As Gaza is roughly 25 x 7 miles that drone can get in firing range anywhere within about 5 min. Any rocket teams still within the launch area would meet Allah right quick.

                              If there are a limited number of useable launch areas any team that sets up for delayed launch would still have a good chance of being spotted while setting up. With Gorgon Stare / Argus 2 Reapers can cover~50% of Gaza with continuous surveillance, and the ability for immediate attack.
                              Hellfires do less damage than say an artillery shell but only marginally. use drones to cover the launch sites and use a gunship with cannon to do the killing. The AC-130 is incredibly accurate, the US has used it to take our terrorist next to Mosques.

                              Drones are also perceived as unmanly, for better or for worse the C-130 would have a bigger psychological impact. In both Iraq and Afghanistan when insurgents feel an AC-130 is around they tend to stay home. its the airborne version of a battleship parked off your coast.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Hellfires do less damage than say an artillery shell but only marginally. use drones to cover the launch sites and use a gunship with cannon to do the killing. The AC-130 is incredibly accurate, the US has used it to take our terrorist next to Mosques.

                                Drones are also perceived as unmanly, for better or for worse the C-130 would have a bigger psychological impact. In both Iraq and Afghanistan when insurgents feel an AC-130 is around they tend to stay home. its the airborne version of a battleship parked off your coast.
                                APKWS are basically laser guided Hydras. You can make the warheads as small as you want.



                                But, yes, I agree, AC-130 would be more awesome.
                                Last edited by citanon; 26 Oct 12,, 03:25.

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