Taliban shoot Pakistani schoolgirl campaigning for peace

[Officer of Engineers]

Most here know I am a fan of science fiction. We often discuss alien mentalities, and how what might be immoral to us, may be an moral imperative to a species far removed from common human thought.

Folks, the earth has been invaded by aliens. Their thought processes are so far removed from what would be considered moral and acceptable, that any attempt to analyze them is doomed to complete and utter failure. It is like trying to discern the motives of a snapping turtle, or a head of coral. Anthropomorphizing them is like ascribing human thought processes to a paramecium.

If so, we are the aliens. It's easy to become like them. Very easy. We've done it in the past. Within months, we turn momma's little boys into cold stone hearted monsters with no remorse and no revulsion into butchering people and cities. The Pacific War and the Russian Front were wars of Mercy neither asked nor given.

The Canadian Airborne Regiment disgraced the Canadian Forces in Somalia.
The 800th Military Police Brigade was not a source of pride in Iraq.

In Yugoslavia, father was murdering daughter and grandmothers were selling grand-daughters into slavery.

We're not that far different from these bastards.

If anything, it is damned hard to stay different from them.

[tantalus]

We're not that far different from these bastards.

If anything, it is damned hard to stay different from them.

Genetically and thus our capability to exhibit specific types of behaviour, all of mankind comes from the one pool, effectively identical. Physical differences are superficial, our cultures are what create and propagate the diversity of behaviours and morals. I remember when reading about world war 2 and the extent of rape that occured in europe, I felt truly disturbed at the speed of which man under the right conditions could degenerate to such cruelty. In this instance the culture actively fosters gender superiority during peace times, it doesnt require extreme war time conditions to bring this type of behaviour to the surface as a result, but the peoples from the west are not that far removed.

Western culture comes from similiar beginnings...so I thing the alien analogy falls apart fairly quickly on that basis.

[USSWisconsin]

It is all the more disturbing to realize that we could desend to this depth. While cathartic in a good action/revenge movie script, an ion and quark foam scrubbing of the area where these scum reside would essentially lower us to their abysmal level of morality.

[Double Edge]

It is nice to see the Pakistani womenfolk out protesting this though. It's hard to remain fervent to god and his 'disciples' when the missus has you on short rations.

You know I've always had this sneaking suspicion that the more those societies appear to put down their women the more those same women rule the home with an increased determination. That it is the women wearing the pants at home just that we don't see it. Every action produces an opposing reaction. It cannot be any other way.

Hence their men support society keeping said women in their place. The men don't mind if they're in charge, so long as its at home.

But here we are confronted with a little schoolgirl who took it out of the home in the only way a teenager knows to.

As for their power, in '09 they owned SWAT and strutted the squares of Lahore. Only the most stern ultimatums by THE US stirred the PA sufficiently to come north and drive them out, and all they did was level a few towns and displace a million or two citizens to establish a buffer zone.

So the TTP are on the back foot presently and trying to reassert themselves. Has this shooting created a PR windfall of sorts for their cause. Makes them seem larger and more powerful than they actually are.

its gripped the attention of everbody domestic and foreign. Gives the impression they are going to take over etc.

[Double Edge]

Folks, the earth has been invaded by aliens. Their thought processes are so far removed from what would be considered moral and acceptable, that any attempt to analyze them is doomed to complete and utter failure. It is like trying to discern the motives of a snapping turtle, or a head of coral. Anthropomorphizing them is like ascribing human thought processes to a paramecium.

Because this isn't gratuitous violence, its a targeted hit. Done with the sole purpose of promoting the TTP's power. To me it looks like a desperate attempt. As they try to appear like they are making a comeback at the same time i see a brittle shell that can be cracked by those that oppose them if the will is there.

Even a little schoolgirl can do it :Dancing-Banana:

When invaded or attacked by aliens whose moral processes are so grossly distant from anything recorded in human history, eradication seems to be the only answer. And if the people subject to this don't have the courage to stand and fight, there's nothing we can do, until and unless they export their violence. If and when that happens again, I would suggest rather than a "measured response", we respond with the atom.

Tired of it... so tired. And all I did was watch from the side lines.

I don't think it will get that far, if the TTP keeps on pulling the same stunts their own will start to push back at some point. It won't be shock & awe but much more subtle. This way it does not attract attention but slowly & surely erodes their hold over time.

[S2]

tantalus Reply

"...The door has been opened and the nest has been stirred. Perhaps therein rests an obligation...?"

If so then our obligation has been satisfied. The door HAS been opened and the nest HAS been stirred. What Afghans and others do with that opportunity remains to be seen.

"...Sadly even if democracy wins the day, we should not expect the equal rights for women to follow..."

Then how democratic would be the victory? Ascending the rungs of democracy is a process-an evolution in our state of mind. It wasn't until the 1920s that women achieved universal suffrage in America. It wasn't until the 1960-70s that they began finding full acceptance in our social fabric. Their quest continues. Afghanistan and elsewhere have a long, hard road before them and it must be they who make those strides-or not. Without such gains won't come or, worse, meaningless and easily reversed.

[tantalus]

Then how democratic would be the victory? Ascending the rungs of democracy is a process-an evolution in our state of mind. It wasn't until the 1920s that women achieved universal suffrage in America. It wasn't until the 1960-70s that they began finding full acceptance in our social fabric. Their quest continues. Afghanistan and elsewhere have a long, hard road before them and it must be they who make those strides-or not. Without such gains won't come or, worse, meaningless and easily reversed.

I am making a distinction between individual liberty and democracy. Democracy can choose inequality, as dictated by religious beliefs and culture.

I agree, ultimately change must come from within. It cannot be forced from the outside.

[Firestorm]

While it is true that Afghan society, like most societies in the region, was conservative even before the advent of the Taliban, Afghanistan did not witness the true horrors of Wahhabism including public floggings and executions, state sanctioned brutality and injustice against women, destruction of the Buddha statues and all the rest of the insanities that were brought there by the Taliban. The Taliban which was financed by Saudi Arabia, indoctrinated in Madrassas in Pakistan (again funded by Saudi Arabia) with an ideology which was foreign to Afghans at the time.
So while you aren't going to see Afghan women becoming business leaders anytime soon, I think their condition will significantly improve if true representative democracy does ever come to Afghanistan. But for that to happen, every last trace of the Taliban needs to be destroyed. Unfortunately that seems to become more and more impossible each passing day.

[Triple C]

Afghanistan was a peaceful vacation resort for a few decades, no?

[S2]

tantalus Reply

"...Democracy can choose inequality, as dictated by religious beliefs and culture..."

A sham is propagated by such. If so, please don't sully the difference. It is profound and evident to most who are not willfully delusional.

[Double Edge]

If the men call the shots outdoors and the women indoors. Then both people dictate to each other. Foster this behavior at the family unit level and the whole society can be controlled. All this society is good for is being dictated to. After all this is a tribal society in an autonomous region that has been traditionally unruly and difficult to govern. A lack of education means force is understood by everyone. Such practices favour dictatorship by default and i think this is by design, to the benefit of leaders at the local village level and higher up.

Fostering such practices makes it relatively easier to govern and excesses are ignored or even encouraged. Religion is just a convenient vehicle along with an austere culture to produce a people that bear the brunt themselves to the benefit of the rulers.

Malala has placed herself at the intersection of two powers, she's challenged the TTP and shamed the Pak administration at the same time.

[tantalus]

A sham is propagated by such.

I agree, that's why I pointed it out

If so, please don't sully the difference.

I am not completely sure what you mean by "sully the difference".

It is profound and evident to most who are not willfully delusional.

Evident...You yourself referred to the rungs of democracy and an evolution in the state of mind, that equality for women was a continuing process in western society. Upon the first democratic vote, equality was not and is not insured. Their is a clear and important distinction between individual liberty and democracy and it is still, in a limited sense even present in the west today where democratic elections have been the norm for some time. It is an oversimplification to partner the two together at the hip.

[Double Edge]

Afghanistan was a peaceful vacation resort for a few decades, no?

No, you're thinking of Swat.

Afghanistan used to be different in the past.

Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan… | FP | May 27 2010

[tbm3fan]

Read here what all the politicians are saying and then see this tonight from Australia. Wow, she really lit into him.

The speech every woman should hear - CNN.com

[Double Edge]

The one thing i've noticed about women is when they decide to do anything, it gets done.

If you want to get a job done, ask a woman. Chances are better than even she will whereas a man may not.

About women in office, you better hope to hell they're on your side or you're screwed. I support women in office so long as they're batting for me. Otherwise i have to pray she is up against another woman. This does not happen very often.

PS: Can Julia ensure she does not wear too much heels on her next trip to India. Closer to flat soles work better.