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Thread: Camp Bastion attacked

  1. #16
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    Put the jets in perspective. It's hard to find numbers, but training losses alone in a year probably dwarf this attack. And the loss of air attack capability can and probably will be replaced in 48 hours.

    That is one of the benefits of being a wealthy, industrialized nation.

    Only a fool would have claimed, even before this attack, that the enemy is stupid, listless, tentative, ineffective.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Put the jets in perspective. It's hard to find numbers, but training losses alone in a year probably dwarf this attack. And the loss of air attack capability can and probably will be replaced in 48 hours.
    Which begs the question... the guys there didn't need more planes for CAS before this attack?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    There are only two USMC Harrier wings, MAG-13 (3 MAW) and MAG-14 (2 MAW). The squadron deployed is the deployment element for MAG-13, last time it was MAG-14's turn. One-quarter of either wing deployed at the time in order to secure replacement capacity.

    The other two squadrons in AFG are the deployments of two ANG TFWs.

  4. #19
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    chogy,

    And the loss of air attack capability can and probably will be replaced in 48 hours.

    That is one of the benefits of being a wealthy, industrialized nation.
    but can we replace this faster and cheaper than the taliban can replace 14 men?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #20
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    At least this was an attack on a legitimate military target rather than a random terror bombing. It was a successful military operation executed with precision. That's war.

    We strafed German airfields in WW2 and Japanese tried their best to attack our facilities in the Mariannas. This is no different.
    Last edited by gunnut; 17 Sep 12, at 22:18.
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  6. #21
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    chogy,



    but can we replace this faster and cheaper than the taliban can replace 14 men?

    Yea, we got all the Harriers the British use to fly cheap
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Six jets destroyed, two jets damaged beyond repair, two refueling stations destroyed - the amount of damage inflicted on NATO in the Taliban attack on Camp Bastion completely dwarfs the damage inflicted in the Mehran and Kamra base attacks, COMBINED!

    Yet we don't hear the Western media, nor the Pakistani liberal extremists, going hysterical about 'terrorists taking control of NATO nukes'.
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  8. #23
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    Because they are not there

    Maybe you need another coffee, seems like you woke up on a wrong foot.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  9. #24
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Because they are not there
    And there is no evidence Pakistani nukes were sitting around the tarmac at Mehran or Kamra either.

    Even if the warheads were stored at those locations, they would be in secured and separately guarded bunkers.

    My point was that a successful attack on a fixed position by a group of dedicated insurgents does not automatically imply that the armed forces responsible for defending that fixed position have been thoroughly infiltrated by 'insurgents/terrorists'.

    I would think that airbases in general would be hard to defend from such dedicated attacks, given their size.
    Maybe you need another coffee, seems like you woke up on a wrong foot.
    I am not the one resorting to profanity - my observation about the differing reactions from the media in response to the attacks in Pakistan and on Camp Bastion is accurate.
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  10. #25
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Destroying some aircraft parked outside, without revetments is a relatively well understood tactical problem. An attack on a nuke installation is a different problem - as far as we know, they aren't very similar in terms of difficulty. One is pretty well understood (the aircraft), the other is not.
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  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    And there is no evidence Pakistani nukes were sitting around the tarmac at Mehran or Kamra either.

    Even if the warheads were stored at those locations, they would be in secured and separately guarded bunkers.

    My point was that a successful attack on a fixed position by a group of dedicated insurgents does not automatically imply that the armed forces responsible for defending that fixed position have been thoroughly infiltrated by 'insurgents/terrorists'.


    I would think that airbases in general would be hard to defend from such dedicated attacks, given their size.
    There are no NATO nukes. There are US, UK and French nukes within NATO. Moreover, there are no nukes in A-stan, therefor nobody went hysterical about their security.

    Would you sleep better if noone raised their eyebrows and questioned about the security of Pakistani nukes? Your media were indifferent?

    I am not the one resorting to profanity - my observation about the differing reactions from the media in response to the attacks in Pakistan and on Camp Bastion is accurate.
    My comment was friendly and was not directed to the current post, but for the tension in all of your posts today. In general, at least in the past, your posts were with a better tone.

    I realize sometimes this might be a hard place for a Pakistani, but, unfortunately, that's the image your country has abroad at the moment. Deal with it and try to improve it if you care. But do it in a constructive way. I believe you are capable to.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    There are no NATO nukes. There are US, UK and French nukes within NATO. Moreover, there are no nukes in A-stan, therefor nobody went hysterical about their security.
    Uhm actually there are NATO nukes. Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Turkey and Germany all co-base with American nukes as the weapons delivery systems. Its called nuclear weapons sharing. Furthermore, the US and UK (potentially France) are also committed to retaliate on anyone who hits a NATO member country with a WMD.

    Would you sleep better if noone raised their eyebrows and questioned about the security of Pakistani nukes? Your media were indifferent?
    If you understood his true motivations you'd know that yes he would in fact sleep better.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Uhm actually there are NATO nukes. Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Turkey and Germany all co-base with American nukes as the weapons delivery systems. Its called nuclear weapons sharing. Furthermore, the US and UK (potentially France) are also committed to retaliate on anyone who hits a NATO member country with a WMD.
    I suppose if we really wanted to get specific...

    From Wiki:

    "In peace time, the nuclear weapons stored in non-nuclear countries are guarded by U.S. soldiers; the codes required for detonating them are under American control. In case of war, the weapons are to be mounted on the participating countries' warplanes. The weapons are under custody and control of USAF Munitions Support Squadrons co-located on NATO main operating bases who work together with the host nation forces."
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #29
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    Yet we don't hear the Western media, nor the Pakistani liberal extremists...
    And that's the crux of the problem with you AM; the day you begin to realize that the 'extremists' are in fact the Taliban sympathizers sitting inside Rawalpindi and Islamabad, and not the pragmatic Pakistanis who question the actions of their own government, that is when you will realize where the rest of us are coming from. Until than, you will continue to be nothing more than a Pak government/army mouthpiece, constantly attempting to deflect blame away from and shield your sorry ass leaders.
    Last edited by Tronic; 20 Sep 12, at 05:05.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    I wonder if the dead attackers' comrades and family feel like the trade was worth it. Some old Harriers for 14 lives.

    Put the jets in perspective. It's hard to find numbers, but training losses alone in a year probably dwarf this attack. And the loss of air attack capability can and probably will be replaced in 48 hours.
    Add two Coalition service members into equation. One of them was Lt. Col. Christopher K. Raible, commander of the Harrier squadron that had six of its planes destroyed in the assault.
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