Muslim protesters clash with police in Sydney

[Doktor]

Defo a Brit, I can understand him, too.

On a side note he worked for BBC as a comedian, but quit as he couldn't express as he would from the PC rules there, that's how he started his channel. Which was banned and then reinstalled.

He also has a book named "Godless and free".

Need to say he is atheist?

[tbm3fan]

He also has a book named "Godless and free".

Need to say he is atheist?

I can hang with that no problem.

[Bigfella]

The Muslim clergy (Imams) are possibly the most powerful influence on the mind and people of their Faith than any other clergy of any other Faith.

One has repeatedly seen how the Muslim clergy can raise a hornets nest over what, at times, is mere trifles.

These 'condemning' is thus mere sops to prevent backlash when they are in the minority.

If indeed they were serious, the Imams should have called a stop to violence forthwith rather than making loud protestations of condemnation.

Though I will also concede that the Film in question was in poor taste.

They tried to Ray, and in most cases were successful. Before & even during the rallies leaders urged a peaceful protest. A small number of protesters ignored them. I'm not really sure what you think they could have done once a small group decided to take a more aggressive approach. You might argue that the best course might have been not to hold the rallies (as has happened in Melbourne), but that was no more a guarantee of stopping the more extreme elements of the community taking a violent approach then telling them to at the rally was. Since that point leaders all over Australia have worked very hard to ensure no repeat. They have continued to preach peaceful protest at mosques & in public and have tried to stop further protests (so far so good...though there may still be one in Melbourne).

Of course, there is a self-reinforcing perception here. Muslim leaders generally have their calls for peace & moderation reported in response to event like this. other than that it isn't 'news'. As a result it always looks like an attempt to appease outside anger. No doubt that is the case sometimes, but would we know if it wasn't?

I would also add that in the week before the protests there were raids in melbourne arresting a number of Muslims who may have been planning terrorist attacks (previous such arrests have also been based on similar information). The group involved was identified & brought to the attention of the authorities by members of the local muslim commuity. Indeed, after the raids the group published a sacrastic letter complaining about the lack of support they recieved from local Muslim leaders. Is that the sort of thing you were after?

[Ray]

Bigfella,

If so, you are lucky that they are not in a sizeable numbers.

We have the second largest Muslim population and they are quite aggressive of what they want!

Good for them and for India to boast that we are a tolerant, democratic, secular nation.

But awful for the law abiding citizen!

[tbm3fan]

Though I will also concede that the Film in question was in poor taste.

Actually I am beginning to like the film more as time passes. You need comedy or satire, no matter how badly done, in order to poke fun at those who take themselves too seriously and boy do they need to be poked.

[kato]

I'll make a generalisation here from personal experience and say Arabic communities have a bit more of their fair share of 'angry young youths' and really any excuse for a rumble and to promote outrage will do.

The last two days of rallies against the movie in Germany would prove you wrong for that. Zero violence, despite 80% of the attendees being young (i.e. teenage) arab muslims.

Besides, in Germany, it's not only muslims that protest against that movie - and not just Christians either. Our government is currently looking into how to best get the movie banned in Germany. Legally doable. Supported too, 72% of Germans don't want the movie shown in public.
Oddly enough, it's the Muslim Central Committee and the imams in Germany that are holding back and staying neutral in the whole discussion.

[Officer of Engineers]

Somebody reminds these kids that Mao and Stalin burned Mosques without a 2nd thought and you don't want to read what they wrote about Mohamed.

[Parihaka]

The last two days of rallies against the movie in Germany would prove you wrong for that. Zero violence, despite 80% of the attendees being young (i.e. teenage) arab muslims.

Sure and we haven't had any protests on this side of the ditch either, nor anything like it. Sudney however did, violent angry young youths looking for a fight and any excuse will do, which is what I was commenting on.

[Bigfella]

Sure and we haven't had any protests on this side of the ditch either, nor anything like it. Sudney however did, violent angry young youths looking for a fight and any excuse will do, which is what I was commenting on.

Like I said Pari, Sydney is an odd place. The relative frequency of riots across different social & ethnic groups (in Australian terms at least) says something about the place. Not sure if it just local culture, policing or a variety of other factors. Sydney certainly does seem to have more than its fare share of angry young men, but it isn't just Arabs unfortunately.

Its also worth pointing out that before the Cronulla riots high profile 'shock jocks' like Alan Jones were effectively inciting this sort of thing - more so than any important Muslim leaders have or did. While Jones & other radio personalities were criticized by some, their careers & popularity were barely dented. Nor did they ever admit wrongdoing. Its a useful standard to keep in mind when judging leaders of the Muslim community. Oh, and the PM of the day heavily qualified his criticism of those who rioted at Cronulla. I'm pleased to say that only one or two of the most extreme musim groups have offered any qualification for their criticisms of what happened in Sydney.

.....meanwhile in Melbourne:

A heated argument broke out on the steps of the library after a group of four protestors arrived with signs condemning Islam.

A small number of Muslims who were in the area approached the men and an argument started.

A group of about 12 people who had earlier been flying Australian flags joined in and the argument became quite heated with about another 50 people joining the pack.

It went on for about 20 minutes before police asked a man who had been arguing in support of the Islamic religion to leave.

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Yep, a heated argument broke out. Apparently there was a small group of 'anti-islamic' protesters and an even smaller group (a dozen) from the athiest society holding up signs (not related to group 1). The argument was between a couple of muslim youths & the athiests. When the others weighed in so did the police. End of story.

[Parihaka]

Yep, a heated argument broke out.

You crazy aussies

[Monash]

Meanwhile the "follow-up" demonstration the more vocal agitators were promising after the original protest in Sydney failed to eventuate. The denouncements of the violence by the majority of the local Muslim community so drowned out the few hot heads that any hope of a round two literally died in the arse. The message preached in most of the local Mosques was that such violence was "Un-Islamic" and any future protests if they occurred should be entirely peaceful. I think any future protests about blasphemous images of the prophet etc are unlikely to gain much traction since most of the thugs involved are not held in very high regard by their compatriots and no-one want's the kind of negative publicity it generates.

[Bigfella]

You crazy aussies

You know us mate, mad, bad & dangerous to know. Lucky you blokes have the dutch between you & us or.....(actually, now I come to think of it maori are pretty scary...but if it wasn't for them that dutch would be all that was keeping us out ;)).

[Bigfella]

Meanwhile the "follow-up" demonstration the more vocal agitators were promising after the original protest in Sydney failed to eventuate. The denouncements of the violence by the majority of the local Muslim community so drowned out the few hot heads that any hope of a round two literally died in the arse. The message preached in most of the local Mosques was that such violence was "Un-Islamic" and any future protests f they occurred should be entirely peaceful. I think any future protests about blasphemous images of the prophet etc are unlikely to gain much traction since most of the thugs involved are not held in very high regard by their compatriots and no-one want's the kind of negative publicity it generates.

It has been a funny week. My first reaction (as expressed here) was that this would be a disaster for muslim/non-muslim relations. Subsequent events have made me wonder. The number or prominent muslim voices raised in opposition to the violence & the virtual unanimity of the response has been encouraging. Even better, those statements have recieved widespread media coverage. Imams or proiminent muslims usually only get religion-related airtime in primetime when they say something bad. This has meant way too much coverage of ther Lakemba community. Thus there were a lot of guys on the TV this week who have never had exposure. I wonder if this response has had any balancing impact after the violence last week. Curious to see how this all shakes out.

[Monash]

"It has been a funny week." Yep, shortly after the "protest" outside the US Consulate I was on my way home, minding my own business when I crossed paths with a fine example of young Anglo Saxon Australian manhood following an older male of middle eastern appearance and based on his apparel a Muslim. This particular individual was publicly abusing the 2nd male calling hi a F*^&$! Muslim, telling him to go back where he came from etc etc etc, the other guy didn't know how to respond and tried to just keep on walking. In the end I hand to go over flash the warrant card and tell him to move on. I mean who needs this kind of crap?

There are 5 million people living in Sydney, the vast majority of who just want to get on with their lives with a minimum of hassle, me included. Now there's some guy from the local Muslim community who will remember being abused by another ignorant "Kafir" and tell his friends. I think my life's mantra will be "Oh Lord why must the .5% of idiots in the world always stuff things up for the the other 99.5%".

[Bigfella]

"It has been a funny week." Yep, shortly after the "protest" outside the US Consulate I was on my way home, minding my own business when I crossed paths with a fine young Anglo Saxon Australian manhood following an older male of middle eastern appearance and based on his apparel a Muslim. This particular individual was publicly abusing the 2nd male calling hi a F*^&$! Muslim, telling him to go back where he came from etc etc etc, the other guy didn't know how to respond and tried to just keep on walking. In the end I hand to go over flash the warrant card and tell him to move on. I mean who needs this kind of crap?

There are 5 million people living in Sydney, the vast majority of who just want to get on with their lives with a minimum of hassle, me included. Now there's some guy from the local Muslim community who will remember being abused by another ignorant "Kafir" and tell his friends. I think my life's mantra will be "Oh Lord why must the .5% of idiots in the world always stuff things up for the the other 99.5%".

Testify!

I suspect this specific sort of thing goes on a lot more than we are aware & has an impact on those communities disproportionate to the scale of its occourance. I know from connections in the African community that some of them deal with stuff on a semi-regular basis that white folks I know would go ballistic about if they were on the other end. The Africans I know somehow manage to shrug it off, but I'm sure there are those who struggle to do so. It doesn't take many idiots to mess things up for all of us.