Seek tactic analysis on this China Army "Amphibious assault"

[Albany Rifles]

No. Soldiers will be climbing over bodies before they can get to their objectives, ie human bodies will become defensive physical (and psychological) barriers, ie you have to remove the bodies before the tanks can come on shore ... that is if enemy guns are not adding to the bodies.

Colonel I need to correct one thing.

They will be climbing over bodies trying to get out of the surf let alone their objectives. If the defenders have any indirect support it wil be a total bloodbath.

And the orange life vests are spiffy.

[Albany Rifles]

the reason for orange vests is that this is still an exercise, not an actual battle so they don't want to lose any casualties that are preventable and unnecessary. So orange vests help to locate soldiers that may be in danger of drowning.

Train as you fight....there are better solutions. US forces use OD vests which are not as bulky.

[Gun Grape]

Has got to be a photo op. They cannot do these things in actual training.

I do love their open boats and amphibious fire support vehicles. Its a Gunners wet dream. HE/VT takes care of the enemy by the boatload, long before they get near shore.

Any that are missed offshore are laying in straight lines on the surf zone.

The vehicles have such a low free board they can only land in sea state 0. A near miss with arty would cause the engines to stall out.

[xinhui]

Keep the good feedback coming guys.

A follow up question, (being an arm chair private here), if you could play laser tag with a battle-group, how would do it? I know it is a loaded question and hopefully the CMC is not reading this forum ;-)

[xinhui]

Andy, I do need an eval. What is the stated purpose of this ex? You and I both know that the PLA do not hold an exercise without a stated purpose.

I've also lost touch with the day-to-day eval of the PLA due to my condition. I'm not reading as much as I should. What I'm really asking what is the PLA confidence level?

here is a quick recap.

they converted all their tank divisions into two brigades, one mech inf, one armor.
they are enlarging all the LH (army aviation) regiments into brigades.
they are downsizing most of their J-7 and J-8 PLAAF fighter divisions into brigades/ decommissioning some in due course .

[Tronic]

"Sir, a minefield will only stop a company or a battalion which stops to demine, not a company or battalion willing to charge through it."

"In for a penny, in for a pound" is not a viable operational premise for professional soldiers. A properly-laid minefield includes covering by observation and fire. "...willing to charge through it." is not considered a breaching operation.

The reason it's not considered a breaching operation is the wanton expenditure of soldiers' lives is detrimental to the good conduct and discipline of any (surviving) unit. Surviving soldiers will likely look askance at the leadership principles exhibited by their commanding officers.;)

Steve, that sentiment is not really universal. An army which is trained to charge through minefields, will charge through minefields and will see nothing wrong with it. This does not mean that they are not supported by CAS and artillery in suppressing enemy OPs and firing positions. Though, it does mean that they have a higher casualty tolerance.

[S2]

Tronic Reply

"...that sentiment is not really universal..."

Certainly at least with you. However I don't offer sentiment.

"...An army which is trained to charge through minefields, will charge through minefields and will see nothing wrong with it..."

Can you offer some other armies routinely making a successful enterprise of this unusual method for clearing minefields? Otherwise it would be you that offers unfounded sentiment.

[Tronic]

"...that sentiment is not really universal..."

Certainly at least with you. However I don't offer sentiment.

"...An army which is trained to charge through minefields, will charge through minefields and will see nothing wrong with it..."

Can you offer some other armies routinely making a successful enterprise of this unusual method for clearing minefields? Otherwise it would be you that offers unfounded sentiment.

I certainly am not implying that this is normal practice conducted routinely by armies, but, disagreeing that, "surviving soldiers will likely look askance at the leadership principles exhibited by their commanding officers." I disagree with that sentiment primarily because I know officers who have charged through, or have trained to charge through, minefields. Infact, so does the Colonel, though I won't speak on his behalf in his absence. This is certainly not normal practice, but when speed is essential to complete the task, and you just can't wait for the sappers, there have been instances where an artillery barrage has been used to flatten the minefield before being charged by the infantry. IIRC, Brigadier Ray too has been in such a situation and led his boys through a minefield despite being wounded. If he is around, he could explain much better than me the circumstances when and why this is practiced. All these examples are from the Indian army.

[Guest]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doktor]

"...An army which is trained to charge through minefields, will charge through minefields and will see nothing wrong with it..."

Can you offer some other armies routinely making a successful enterprise of this unusual method for clearing minefields? Otherwise it would be you that offers unfounded sentiment.

Soviets towards Berlin?

[lemontree]

1. The purple smoke thingies look nice. But a day time beach assault!!
2. Their beach assault boats are not exactly what we call assault crafts. Infantry section and infantry section will leave their boats on the beach creating a clutter and a mess. Where are their going to carry all these boats??
3. Why are they deploying on the beach!!

[lemontree]

"Sir, a minefield will only stop a company or a battalion which stops to demine, not a company or battalion willing to charge through it."

"In for a penny, in for a pound" is not a viable operational premise for professional soldiers. A properly-laid minefield includes covering by observation and fire. "...willing to charge through it." is not considered a breaching operation.

The reason it's not considered a breaching operation is the wanton expenditure of soldiers' lives is detrimental to the good conduct and discipline of any (surviving) unit. Surviving soldiers will likely look askance at the leadership principles exhibited by their commanding officers.;)

S2,
The casualty rate of crossing a mine field is about 3-4%...in extended line assault formation.
In single file assault, it is even less.

The good Brig. Ray, had charged through a minefield during the Indo-Pak conflict of 1971, with his rifle company.

[RollingWave]

assuming an assault on Taiwan, there are some obviou problems.

A. Taiwan doesnt' actually have that many beaches.... at least clean beaches, most beaches either have a shite load of lagoons stretched out for a considerable distance and/or a ton of oyster farm stands that could certainly tangle up men in water if not boats.

B. due to that, and the fact that Taiwan is rather small, the zone of landing would be quite easy to for see, this isn't D-day where the Nazis were guessing anywhere from Marsellie to Oslo here. the realistic zone of landing is less than the entire stretch of Normandy.

C. Taiwan strait's condition sucks, trust me I sailed there more than a few times. I rather be in the Pacific anyday of the year, short of a Typhoon than be in the strait. you need a pretty damn high tolerance boats and craft to land . it's also a much longer ride from the mainland to Taiwan than from England to Normandy.

Those guns are shiny though, better than the standard issue for Taiwan's certainly (we don't have that many attachements, especially not as standard issue, then again these guys may not be standard issued gears either.)

Still, there have been critisim in Taiwan in recent years that we always drill on the ideal "the Commies will flood the beaches like idiots and we'll have a turkey shoot" type .. and not consider the possibility of if they break through what do we do?

Also, not surprisingly (but rather amusing), in the ROC's drill the Blue team is always the good guys and the Red Teams the bad guys. :P

[lemontree]

Why are we just thinking Taiwan?
The objective could also be somewhere in the Andamans & Nicobar Islands.

[S2]

lemontree & Tronic Reply

"The casualty rate of crossing a mine field is about 3-4%...in extended line assault formation.
In single file assault, it is even less."

Density and depth of the field coupled with the amount of observation and emplaced weapons covering such is no fixed matter. Therefore neither can be the casualty rate.

"The good Brig. Ray, had charged through a minefield during the Indo-Pak conflict of 1971, with his rifle company."

So both of you have mentioned. Thus it must be. For our army it would be viewed as an act of desperation by leaders bereft of all but human fodder and is not a tactical option of which I'm unaware.

"...there have been instances where an artillery barrage has been used to flatten the minefield before being charged by the infantry. IIRC, Brigadier Ray too has been in such a situation..."

Already you qualify "...charging across a minefield..."?