Originally posted by Doktor
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
India, US set to ink $1.4bn deal for 22 Apache helicopters
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by YellowFever View PostI want to ask the Indians on the board this question:
Are you guys satisfied with the way your government conduct their arms aquisition?
From an amateur's point of view, it seems like they're more worried about the politics and preoccupied wih the "we want to spread this around" mentality as far as aquiring arms are concerned."There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stitch View PostAnd the US system of defense acquisition is different HOW?
This thread brought a question to mind re: attack helicopters, specifically the low-tech vs. high-tech approach. Let's look at the Cobra vs. the Apache. I'm having trouble finding the flyaway cost of these, but for the sake of the argument, let's say you could buy 2.5 Cobras for the price of 1 Apache.
I know little about attack helos, and it'll show, but isn't the bulk of the technology in the armament it carries, specifically the AT missiles? Equip both with price-appropriate night, thermal, IR systems, and the needed technology to successfully fire a Hellfire equivalent. Cannon or chain guns are cheap; equip as desired. Would the Apache be 2.5X as capable? It'll be more survivable, perhaps.
This argument is similar to the "mount 6 AIM-9X on a BAE Hawk and have at it", which you hear quite often, and there may be something to it. If I were a commander of a large armored force, an enormous fleet of low-tech attack helicopters would give me nightmares.
Comment
-
Originally posted by lemontree View PostNo doubt air power is supreme and a terror for armd units, but you cannot imagine what a couple of fire units of arty can do to an armd thrust. Then what ever is left will be chewed up by own AT assets (inf and mech or supporting armd units).
Comment
-
Originally posted by Double Edge View PostToo many checks and balances or just red tape ?Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
-Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry
Comment
-
Originally posted by Doktor View PostWhy is it tolerated?Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
-Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry
Comment
-
It's gone beyond simple bureaucratic lethargy unfortunately. These days the MoD(Ministry of Defense) and the CBI(Central Bureau of Investigation) seem to be more interested in blacklisting vendors at the faintest whiff of corruption rather than actually trying to pin down the culprits and nail them. All you need to do to ensure that a defense deal falls through is to plant a story in the media about alleged corruption quoting unnamed sources and the govt. will promptly ban the manufacturer in question forthright, even before any meaningful investigation is done.
In one case (IIRC one of the gazillion failed Artillery procurement attempts) these worthies blacklisted all but one of the manufacturers who had submitted bids. Now according to their own rules no procurement is allowed in an open tender process if there is no fair competition. So they cancelled the whole tender and left the Army hanging. :bang: The day is not far when equipment vendors are going to stop responding to any open tender floated by the fickle minded Indian MoD.Last edited by Firestorm; 24 Aug 12,, 23:02.
Comment
-
^^ I can see that. The problem is, any corporation with more than 12 employees will somewhere, somehow, have "corruption" or criminality in it, if nothing more than the theft of a few pens or a ream of paper. Obviously there are levels of corruption, and when it deals with public funds, you investigate. But to black list a huge entity capable of making something like a tank or helicopter because ONE employee took a small bribe is ridiculous.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Firestorm View PostI'm sure you are right Captain but considering the disaster that is the IA's Artillery procurement, having a few alternatives would be welcome I should think.
Cheers!...on the rocks!!
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by lemontree View PostI agree with you, but remember it takes less than 3 minutes to bring down arty fire on a target, (irrespective of air parity). While calling in choppers may take much more time.No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Chogy View Post^^ I can see that. The problem is, any corporation with more than 12 employees will somewhere, somehow, have "corruption" or criminality in it, if nothing more than the theft of a few pens or a ream of paper. Obviously there are levels of corruption, and when it deals with public funds, you investigate. But to black list a huge entity capable of making something like a tank or helicopter because ONE employee took a small bribe is ridiculous.
The whole saga started with the Bofors guns of Sweden. It is black listed even today. However recently found out India is the largest customer of Swedish Bofors unit(now owned by BAE). They are supplying spare parts to a Indian public defence production agency for the existing Bofors gun. On paper India is buying from a Indian company. Similarly all the black listed companies probably can supply through this route.
Thank goodness some one came up the idea of FMS with US. It gives the Indian forces a window to jump over the political maze.
Come up with requirements which only US systems can meet. Like... C-17 "ST in high altitude", C-130 "Special forces version!",M177 "light mountain artillery with combat history!" etc.
Comment
Comment