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  • Colour Blind Bombers

    read this recently in Dawkins book, "Unweaving the Rainbow"

    bomber crews in the Second World War liked to include at least one colour-blind member, who could penetrate
    certain kinds of camouflage on the ground.
    Is he correct ? and how common was the practice ?

  • #2
    Not an educated answer, but doesn't sound realistic to me.

    I do know when I was in the Navy, if you were color blind you could not be an electrician but could be in Intelligence. Someone who claimed to be color blind told me he could see things better in an image. /shrug

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    • #3
      Considering that wires are color-coded, that makes sense...
      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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      • #4
        I have heard this before, but long ago. It sounded like an urban legend to me.

        If only...

        ...coming from someone whose tried to find a military career field while being bigtime colorblind. I lost my nav slot when USAF realized they forgot to test me.

        Ed-

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        • #5
          I don't see it.

          Only one crewmember would see the target. The bombardier. And most formation attacks dropped off the lead plane.
          SO only the bombardier in the lead plane looked for the target.

          What would be the point, or use , of having a colorblind crewman?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
            I don't see it.
            What would be the point, or use , of having a colorblind crewman?
            Presumably to see past certain kinds of colour camo.

            Consider,

            Color blindness is not always a disadvantage, according to University of Calgary primatologist Amanda Melin and her colleagues, who found that wild color-blind capuchins in Costa Rica are better at detecting camouflaged insects than individuals with broader color vision.

            To determine how color vision affects insect hunting, the researchers used DNA samples to distinguish capuchins that were partially color-blind from those with a wider spectrum of color vision. Observations of capuchins foraging for surface-dwelling insects showed that color-blind capuchins made nearly 20 insect-capture attempts per hour, compared with only about 16 for those with normal color vision.

            One possible explanation for the color-blind advantage is that a reduction in color signals makes the differences in texture and brightness more apparent, so it’s easier to see past color camouflage, says Melin.

            Could similar effects have caused color blindness to arise and persist in humans? It’s hard to tell. “Two things could have happened; there may have actually been some advantage for color-blind early humans—they might have been hunting animals with camouflage,” says Melin. “Or selection pressure for maintaining color vision could have relaxed because it wasn’t a big advantage in the habitat or types of hunting used at the time.”
            The Upside of Color Blindness | Senses | DISCOVER Magazine

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            • #7
              sounds like bs to me.
              according to most charts (color bubbles) i'm totaly colorblind, yet i see all colors just fine including shades, i work fine with wires, not a single time in my life i felt i didn't see the color right. but i can't make out 90% of pics on those bubble charts.
              most ppl think color blind ppl see everything in b\w, no it isn't the case, some might not see green as good, or red ....., but every case of it is different. no 2 color blind ppl see or don't see the same thing.
              "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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              • #8
                Yep, exactly.

                Although at night, I do have trouble with traffic lights at a distance. From far away in the dark, I have problems distinguishing reds from yellows.

                Ed-

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                • #9
                  My ex-father in law was color blind couldn't see a green handled screw driver on a red hood, but he had never hit a deer. He could see them better than the rest of us.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                    Presumably to see past certain kinds of colour camo.

                    Consider,



                    The Upside of Color Blindness | Senses | DISCOVER Magazine
                    But the only crewmember that has a view of the target area with enough detail for that advantage to be of use is the bombardier.

                    If the colorblind crewmember isn't in a position to do targetting then his colorblindness does no good.

                    If the book said that bomber command liked to have the lead bombardier be colorblind, I could see that as having a hint of possibility. But not that they liked to have a colorblind crewmember.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                      read this recently in Dawkins book, "Unweaving the Rainbow"



                      Is he correct ? and how common was the practice ?

                      The RAF practise, was to get all the aircrew together in a hanger and then let themselves sort out, who was in what crew. In the various accounts that I have read of men who went through this selection process, they make no mention of anyone being colourblind. More to the point, when I was in the RAF, I had a mate who medically downgraded because of his colourblindness.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                        But the only crewmember that has a view of the target area with enough detail for that advantage to be of use is the bombardier.

                        If the colorblind crewmember isn't in a position to do targetting then his colorblindness does no good.

                        If the book said that bomber command liked to have the lead bombardier be colorblind, I could see that as having a hint of possibility. But not that they liked to have a colorblind crewmember.
                        I understand.

                        I had a look online for info. Found anecdotal remarks that crews liked to have atleast 1 colour blind man (I understand there are different types of colour blindness) to help in the analysis of coloured aerial photographs (in locating german camps). Another webite mentioned the inclusion of colour blind pilots in spy planes. Neither provided sources so I havent bothered to link them. Nothing concrete.

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                        • #13
                          Well,I am colour blinded too,but it never stopped me from becoming a quite successfull painter and I finished industrial design college with no problems. From my military experience, being deployed in the actual war zone,being colour blind has the advantage over colour camouflage cause ,since colour information does not exist, the eye sees shapes or form more easily, simply cause there is less information to process and thus faster time to react.
                          I guess it is like with cats and dogs, they don't see all the colours but that doesn't stop them to be top of the line predators,brain focuses more quickly.
                          Last edited by Versus; 02 Aug 12,, 11:15.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Versus View Post
                            Well,I am colour blinded too,but it never stopped me from becoming a quite successfull painter and I finished industrial design college with no problems. From my military experience, being deployed in the actual war zone,being colour blind has the advantage over colour camouflage cause ,since colour information does not exist, the eye sees shapes or form more easily, simply cause there is less information to process and thus faster time to react.
                            I guess it is like with cats and dogs, they don't see all the colours but that doesn't stop them to be top of the line predators,brain focuses more quickly.

                            Colour blind here, and I'm messed up all the time. Shades of Red and brown can look similar, as well blue/purple and orange/red/green. Sold floor covering right after High School and always mixed up pinks and greys... embarrassing some times! That being said, I've never seemed better or worse at picking out wildlife and we've spent a lot of time in the Rockies. I don't believe there is any advantage in this scenario.

                            Cheers!
                            Taurkon

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                            • #15
                              "My father joined the military for two reasons," said Edward B. Skvarna, Matthew's father. "He wanted to see the world and he didn't want to be stuck working in the steel mills of Pittsburgh his whole life. For him, being an air crew member during World War II was everything he dreamed it would be. He loved the dangerous aspects of early flight missions and the adventurous skies of combat."

                              The infamous Pacific campaign was at its peak and the eldest Skvarna, along with the Army Air Corps, was routinely flying high toward the Empire of Japan on photo reconnaissance missions.

                              The team soared through the bitter darkness of enemy skies and gathered photo intelligence in a B-29 Superfortress, one of the heaviest long-range bomber aircrafts used during the war.

                              On one mission in particular, the eldest Skvarna, then thousands of miles from the steel mills of Pittsburgh, was preparing for battle as a right gunner on the B-29. He was colorblind and even though it disqualified him from becoming a pilot, it led him to qualify for other jobs within the air crew. Edward M. was able to use his 'disadvantage' of being colorblind to the advantage of the Allied Forces.

                              "Being colorblind didn't slow my grandpa down," said Matthew. "It was during that flight over the Japanese harbor he proved that."

                              While gathering intelligence from a bird's eye view, the eldest Skvarna spotted something in the harbor that didn't look right. He spotted an outline of an Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft carrier that was camouflaged to blend in with the colors of the sea.

                              For everyone on the Superfortress, the carrier was virtually invisible. However, Edward M. noticed the ship immediately because of how differently his vision interpreted the colors.

                              "He kept telling the crew he saw a Japanese war ship in the water," said Matthew. "At first, they thought he was crazy, nobody else in the air could see anything. He stuck to his guns, though. A U.S. Navy submarine confirmed the Japanese aircraft carrier, Shinano, was in the harbor. The USS Archer Fish sank the carrier in Nov. 1944. My grandfather's disadvantage of being colorblind may not have allowed him to be a pilot but it ended up saving countless lives by sinking one of the largest Japanese ships during the war."

                              For his actions during the Pacific campaign, the eldest Skvarna received an Air Force Distinguished Flying Cross for his heroic efforts among many other achievements.
                              http://www.charleston.af.mil/news/st...p?id=123299531

                              I have read other remarks indicating that colour blind people were used in analysing recon photos, as I previously mentioned in this thread, but this account refers to a gunner spotting the ship so I wanted to post it up.

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