Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

USN oiler fires on Indian fishing vessel

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • USN oiler fires on Indian fishing vessel

    Indian fishermen say U.S. boat fired without warning
    By Amena Bakr

    DUBAI (Reuters) - Indian fishermen who survived a hail of gunfire from a U.S. navy boat off the coast of the United Arab Emirates disputed U.S. claims that their boat drew fire after ignoring warnings to steer clear of the American vessel.
    One Indian was killed and three others injured on Monday when the USNS Rappahannock, a refueling ship, fired on the fishing vessel, which the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet said approached at high speed and ignored repeated warnings.
    The incident highlighted the potential for a rapid escalation of tensions in Gulf waters, where U.S. forces are expanding their presence as Washington ramps up pressure on Iran over its nuclear program.
    The fishermen, hospitalized with gunshot wounds after the incident near Dubai's Jebel Ali port, said on Tuesday that they received no warning before the U.S. craft opened fire, and that their craft had attempted to avoid any contact with it.
    "We had no warning at all from the ship, we were speeding up to try and go around them and then suddenly we got fired at," 28-year-old Muthu Muniraj told Reuters from hospital, his legs punctured by the rounds of the U.S. craft's .50-caliber gun.
    "We know warning signs and sounds and there were none; it was very sudden. My friend was killed, he's gone. I don't understand what happened."
    A Fifth Fleet spokesman, Lt. Greg Raelson, asked whether the identification of the craft as a fishing boat made the threat cited by the Navy less likely, said an internal inquiry into the incident had not finished.
    "Non-lethal measures were taken while attempting to signal the vessel," he said, adding that the fishing craft did not respond. "That was when the security team fired rounds from the .50-caliber ... Our ships have an inherent right to self-defense against lethal threats."
    The United States has been particularly wary of attacks on its ships since two al Qaeda suicide bombers rammed an explosives-laden boat into the USS Cole in 2000, blowing a massive hole in its side and killing 17 U.S. sailors.
    In Monday's incident, other members of the boat's crew, which consisted of six Indians and two Emiratis, said their boat had come under fire as it returned from trawling in waters off Jebel Ali.
    "We were fishing and then on the way back they started shooting at us, so many shots, like a storm," said 35-year-old Muthu Kannan, who had a gunshot wound to the abdomen and a lower leg wired into place with metal rods.
    "This is not the first time for us to go out in the boat and we all know what a warning is," said 26-year-old Pandu Sanadhan. "All I can remember is a lot of shooting."
    ASSURANCES
    An Indian government spokesman said he had assurances that Washington would provide a full account of the incident, and the Indian foreign ministry said it had no position on the issue of whether the fisherman were warned before the shooting.
    But in the UAE, Indian ambassador M.K Lokesh told Reuters after meeting with the fishermen: "Obviously if they were warned they would not go close to such a big vessel. Even if shots were fired in the air, these fishermen would have moved away."
    Asked if the Indian government would press for legal charges to be lodged against the U.S. sailors involved, he said: "We have to wait for the inquiry to be completed by the Dubai police before we move any further. But we are pushing for quick completion for the investigations."
    Some Indian media appeared to blame the United States for the incident; one television channel ran headlines reading "Murder on the High Seas" and "No Regret, No Apology from America". In a statement, the U.S. embassy in New Delhi expressed its condolences to the families of the boat's crew.
    Iran said the incident threatened to further destabilize a region already shaken by the international dispute over Tehran's nuclear program, which Washington and its allies believe is geared to make bombs.
    Tehran denies it is seeking nuclear weapons and has repeatedly threatened to close the Gulf's outlet, the Strait of Hormuz through which 40 percent of the world's sea-borne oil exports are carried, if threatened over its nuclear plans.
    "We have announced time and again that the presence of foreign forces can be a threat to regional security," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said during a news conference broadcast on state television.
    The U.S. Navy said in February that Iran had built up its naval forces in the Gulf and prepared boats that could be used in suicide attacks.
    "They have increased the number of submarines ... they increased the number of fast attack craft," said Vice Admiral Mark Fox, commander of U.S. naval forces in the region.
    "Some of the small boats have been outfitted with a large warhead that could be used as a suicide explosive device. The Iranians have a large mine inventory."
    (Additional reporting by Praveen Menon and Marcus George in Dubai and Ross Colvin in New Delhi; Writing by Joseph Logan; Editing by Myra MacDonald and Peter Graff) Link
    Yeah. The USN makes a habit of randomly opening up on helpless fishing vessels that are minding their own business.

    Because there'd never be any consequences from such an action.

    The Indian PM is going to look pretty stupid when the Rappahannock's video footage is released. (And believe you me, there'll be plenty of footage.)
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

  • #2
    The way I got it on the net, about this incident is that the USN vessel did everything by the book, and were forced to fire as the fisher's vessel got too close.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      The way I got it on the net, about this incident is that the USN vessel did everything by the book, and were forced to fire as the fisher's vessel got too close.
      And doktor you believe that ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Why wouldn't I? USN started to lie recently?

        Edit:
        From CNN's article:
        The small boat appeared to be headed for that port, the Defense Department officials said, adding that their information was preliminary. The U.S. ship verbally warned the smaller boat when it was 1,200 yards (1,100 meters) away and fired at least one warning shot before the decision was made to fire shots to disable the boat, the officials said.
        "In accordance with Navy force protection procedures, the sailors on the USNS Rappahannock ... used a series of nonlethal, preplanned responses to warn the vessel before resorting to lethal force," the Navy said in a statement.
        Last edited by Doktor; 17 Jul 12,, 15:47.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • #5
          A failure of communication, obviously but this quote:

          "We had no warning at all from the ship, we were speeding up to try and go around them and then suddenly we got fired at,"

          ...was not a very smart decision...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            Yeah. The USN makes a habit of randomly opening up on helpless fishing vessels that are minding their own business.

            Because there'd never be any consequences from such an action.

            The Indian PM is going to look pretty stupid when the Rappahannock's video footage is released. (And believe you me, there'll be plenty of footage.)
            Uh, the Indian PM has made no official comment on the incident. So why should he look stupid?

            And while the USN may not be at fault in this case, they have managed to shoot down a civilian airliner in the past, without consequences. :whome:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
              And while the USN may not be at fault in this case, they have managed to shoot down a civilian airliner in the past, without consequences. :whome:
              And just what kind of "consequences" do you think the US should have suffered for that action?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                And just what kind of "consequences" do you think the US should have suffered for that action?
                Those of the crew of the Vincennes whose recklessness cost the lives of 290 innocent people should have been dealt with, with the USN's internal disciplinary measures (court-martialled if needed). Most of them were given medals IIRC, including Captain Rogers.

                In any case, what I think the consequences should have been is beside the point. My intention was to merely point out that TopHatter's comment about "no consequences" isn't necessarily true. Assuming of course that he was being sarcastic when he said this

                Because there'd never be any consequences from such an action.
                Last edited by Firestorm; 17 Jul 12,, 22:37.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                  Uh, the Indian PM has made no official comment on the incident. So why should he look stupid?
                  You're quite right, I was skimming too quickly and misread the identity of the person quoted.

                  Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                  Those of the crew of the Vincennes whose recklessness cost the lives of 290 innocent people should have been dealt with, with the USN's internal disciplinary measures (court-martialled if needed). Most of them were given medals IIRC, including Captain Rogers.
                  You're correct, there were no overt disciplinary actions taken against the crew.
                  However you'll note that Rogers, for whatever reason, retired from the Navy as a captain.
                  Whether or not he was striving for flag rank I have no idea. But I'm fairly positive that the destruction of Iran Air Flight 655 ruined his chances of that.

                  Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                  In any case, what I think the consequences should have been is beside the point. My intention was to merely point out that TopHatter's comment about "no consequences" isn't necessarily true. Assuming of course that he was being sarcastic when he said this
                  The inquiry noted several difficulties involved with the incident, including the assertion that Rogers was told that the target had been identified as an IRAF F-14 Tomcat, that he'd had less than 4 minutes warning, was in the middle of a surface engagement and was also responsible for the anti-air protection of a Knox-class frigate.

                  What I'm getting at is that the circumstances were very very different. And, it was a different era entirely.
                  The technological changes alone between 1988 and 2012 boggle the mind.
                  There is also the post-Cole and post-9/11 culture we are living in.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by commander View Post
                    And doktor you believe that ?
                    What are you implying? Why wouldn't anyone believe that everything was done by the book?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                      You're quite right, I was skimming too quickly and misread the identity of the person quoted.

                      You're correct, there were no overt disciplinary actions taken against the crew.
                      However you'll note that Rogers, for whatever reason, retired from the Navy as a captain.
                      Whether or not he was striving for flag rank I have no idea. But I'm fairly positive that the destruction of Iran Air Flight 655 ruined his chances of that.

                      The inquiry noted several difficulties involved with the incident, including the assertion that Rogers was told that the target had been identified as an IRAF F-14 Tomcat, that he'd had less than 4 minutes warning, was in the middle of a surface engagement and was also responsible for the anti-air protection of a Knox-class frigate.

                      What I'm getting at is that the circumstances were very very different. And, it was a different era entirely.
                      The technological changes alone between 1988 and 2012 boggle the mind.
                      There is also the post-Cole and post-9/11 culture we are living in.
                      Tophatter,

                      The Lockerbie bombing with deaths of over 200 resulted in a multibillion dollar verdict while the destructions of Iran Air Flight 655 resulted in a paltry sum of $131.8 million and awards were given to the captain while the instigator of the Lockerbie bombing was jailed.

                      You tell me how the standards were the same. Same thing with Union Carbide. To date, US has refused to hand over William Anderson and is actively engaging in the obstruction of justice on behalf of the victims of the Bhopal tragedy. It is because of those actions, I no longer have any support for US claims against other countries while US refuse to play ball by other countries' requests. It is a classic case of "Do as I say, not as I do."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                        Tophatter,

                        The Lockerbie bombing with deaths of over 200 resulted in a multibillion dollar verdict while the destructions of Iran Air Flight 655 resulted in a paltry sum of $131.8 million and awards were given to the captain while the instigator of the Lockerbie bombing was jailed.

                        You tell me how the standards were the same.
                        I said circumstances. Not standards.

                        But since you've brought it up, the Lockerbie bombing was a deliberate premeditated act of state terrorism.
                        While this is small comfort to the families, Iran Air Flight 655 was hideous mistake in an active warzone.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          Tophatter,

                          The Lockerbie bombing with deaths of over 200 resulted in a multibillion dollar verdict while the destructions of Iran Air Flight 655 resulted in a paltry sum of $131.8 million and awards were given to the captain while the instigator of the Lockerbie bombing was jailed.

                          You tell me how the standards were the same. Same thing with Union Carbide. To date, US has refused to hand over William Anderson and is actively engaging in the obstruction of justice on behalf of the victims of the Bhopal tragedy. It is because of those actions, I no longer have any support for US claims against other countries while US refuse to play ball by other countries' requests. It is a classic case of "Do as I say, not as I do."
                          Do you equate terrorist action, deliberately targetting civilians outside a warzone, with that of an accident by uniformed military inside a warzone?
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Lockerbie bombing with deaths of over 200 resulted in a multibillion dollar verdict while the destructions of Iran Air Flight 655 resulted in a paltry sum of $131.8 million and awards were given to the captain while the instigator of the Lockerbie bombing was jailed.
                            Had the USN been sailing around waiting for a airliner to shoot down you might have a point - it wasn't the case so I guess you don't.
                            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by troung View Post
                              Had the USN been sailing around waiting for a airliner to shoot down you might have a point - it wasn't the case so I guess you don't.
                              Results are the same in the end, does not matter regarding the means.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X