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  • SOHR says Russia has killed 10k, of which 3.8k were civilians (mostly men of military age), with the remainder being ISIS and other armed militants. The author has taken that 10k figure and lied saying they were all civilians.
    GAME CHANGE
    Russia and Assad Regime’s Destruction in Aleppo Likely to Leave Only Extremists Standing
    With a heavy bombing campaign that included hospitals, Russia and the Assad regime are ensuring the destruction of Aleppo and any moderate U.S.-backed rebels in it.
    Nancy A. Youssef
    Nancy A. Youssef
    10.03.16 5:00 AM ET

    The U.S. quickly is running out of options to stop the regime and Russia on Syria’s eastern Aleppo, U.S. officials concede, and they fear that abandoned U.S.-backed rebels could increasingly turn to jihadists groups, like al Qaeda, for protection.

    In addition, two U.S. officials told the Daily Beast, they fear the defeat of rebels in Syria’s largest city could weaken U.S.-backed groups in other areas around including Idlib, Hama and Latakia.

    That is, the collapse of rebel held areas of eastern Aleppo could mean not just a stronger position for Syrian President Bashar al Assad but radical terror groups, the last remaining opposition forces still standing. The fate of Aleppo could be the turning point of the five-year civil war.

    “The rebels have been willing to go along with the coalition up until now. But how long can they hold out against a [Russian] assault?” one distraught U.S. official asked

    If that happens, it will validate a long standing Russian narrative that U.S. backed rebels are not moderate as the U.S. claims but radical elements seeking to destroy Syria. And forcing such groups toward more radical elements may be the very intent behind their aggressive assault on eastern Aleppo for the last week, which was launched after the collapse of the latest cease fire.

    The Russians and the regime are using “brutal tactics to radicalize other side. And that appears to be by design, not a defect,” Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a senior fellow at the Washington, D.C.-based Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

    “This is self-fulfilling Russian propaganda,” the U.S. official said.

    U.S. officials believe the assault by the regime and Russia now includes using bunker buster bombs, designed to pierce hardened targets like bunkers, in addition to incendiary weapons and chemical weapons, all part of a campaign targeting hospitals, aide workers, water supplies and food supplies.

    According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, roughly 10,000 civilians have been killed by Russian airstrikes since their campaign on behalf of Assad began a year ago on September 30, an intervention that fundamentally shifted the war toward the regime.

    According to the World Health Organization, as recently as the week between September 23 and September 30, 338 people were killed in eastern Aleppo, including 106 children.

    "The situation really is unfathomable,” Rick Brennan, WHO's head of emergency risk management and humanitarian response, said a U.N. briefing in Geneva Friday.

    Moreover, U.S. officials believe thousands of regime forces have moved into the city and started a block by block clearing of destroyed rebel-held areas of eastern Aleppo.

    There are conflicting reports about what the regime forces now hold. A Syrian government source told Reuters its troops had captured several government buildings Friday in parts of Aleppo’s Suleiman al-Halabi district, but rebels said those forces have since retreated.

    On Sunday, the Syrian Army reportedly urged the opposition to leave, offering safe passage, as they moved their way through the city.

    U.S. officials estimate there are “several thousand” rebels in and around Aleppo. But weapons like TOW missiles and AK-47s in rebel hands are no match against the air assault.
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    On Thursday, U.S. officials began suggesting for the first time that eastern Aleppo could fall into regime hands, in a matter of weeks, citing the assault on food and water supplies and the presumed Russian and/or Syrian strikes on the two largest hospitals in eastern Aleppo Wednesday.

    “You can live without a lot of things, but not water,” one defense official explained to The Daily Beast.

    Defenders of the rebels note that if rebels have been unwilling to join al Qaeda forces in eastern Aleppo this long, they are not likely to turn to the group now. But Jennifer Cafarella, a Syria planner at the Washington-based Institute for the Study of War, noted there are other groups, short of al Qaeda, that rebels could turn to for support as their territory shrinks. Among them are al Ahrar al Sham, a Salafi jihadist group.

    “There is currently a diverse spectrum of groups in Syria,” Cafarella explained to the Daily Beast.

    That said, the defeat of weakened moderate opposition forces in Aleppo would result in an "overall change in the character of the opposition" moving forward, Cafarella said.

    The Russians charge that there is no real moderate opposition, but rather the United States is depending jihadist elements, like Jahbat Fateh al-Sham, formerly known as al Nusra, an al Qaeda affiliate, to bolster a small number of moderates.

    During the ceasefire negotiations two weeks ago, the U.S. “pledged solemnly to take as a priority an obligation to separate the opposition from Nusra," Russian Foreign Minister said Sergey Lavrov told the BBC Friday.

    "They still, in spite of many repeated promises and commitments... are not able or not willing to do this and we have more and more reasons to believe that from the very beginning the plan was to spare Nusra and to keep it just in case for Plan B or stage two when it would be time to change the regime,” Lavrov told the BBC.

    U.S. officials currently are considering options for eastern Aleppo, in the face of the ongoing bombardment and collapse ceasefire talks between the Russians and the U.S. State Department. But those discussions so far are at a staff level. And with every day of Russian-led aerial bombardments, options dwindle, the U.S. officials conceded.

    At least one option remains off the table. Ash Carter, Secretary of Defense, and Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have resisted military options, saying the U.S. military campaign should remain focused at defeating the self-proclaimed Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The administration has so far agreed with that assessment.

    “At the end of the day, there are going to be challenges around the world that happen that don't directly touch on our security, where we need to help - we need to help lead, but just sending in more troops is not going to be the answer,” PresidenT Obama told CNN”s Jake Tapper at a presidential town hall Wednesday with members of the U.S. military and their families.

    The result is that the various U.S. government agencies invested deeply divided over U.S. options for what to do in eastern Aleppo, particularly for the CIA, which worked hardest at finding, training and arming U.S.-backed opposition groups.

    “If eastern Aleppo falls, it would be a major setback to say the least,” a second U.S. official concluded.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

    Comment


    • ....
      US Military Targets Senior al-Qaeda Leader in Syria
      By Luis Martinez
      http://abcnews.go.com/International/us- ... d=42536356


      ·Oct 3, 2016, 1:11 PM ET

      The Pentagon has confirmed that an airstrike in Syria targeted a prominent al-Qaeda member but said no details about the member's identity will be released until an assessment of the strike's success is concluded.

      “We can confirm that we targeted a prominent al-Qaeda member in Syria, and we are assessing the results of the operation at this time,” said Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman. “Each time we remove a significant al-Qaeda leader, we disrupt and degrade their command and control and halt their expansion This is another example of our government’s resolve to track down those whose objective is bringing terror to others, particularly external operations outside of Syria and Iraq.”

      Unconfirmed reports on social media suggested that the target of the U.S. airstrike was Abu al-Faraj al-Masri, a senior al-Nusra commander.

      Davis made clear to reporters this morning that the target was a leader of core al-Qaeda, the terrorist group founded by Osama bin Laden and now headed by Ayman al-Zawahiri that continues to operate in the tribal region of Pakistan.

      Davis said there has been a resurgence of al-Qaeda in Syria, particularly through its onetime Syrian affiliate al-Nusra Front, which has been a key Islamist rebel group in the Syrian civil war. In July, al-Nusra Front changed its name to Jabhat al-Sham and severed ties to the parent Qaeda organization.

      The United States has designated Jabhat al-Sham a terrorist organization.

      Another group of al-Qaeda members known as the Khorasan Group has moved from the Afghanistan-Pakistan tribal region to Syria to work with al-Nusra Front to plan high-profile terrorist attacks. These groups were targeted by U.S. airstrikes in a campaign separate from the ones targeting ISIS.
      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

      Comment



      • Russian jets pulverize jihadist rebels around Aleppo


        By Leith Fadel -
        05/10/2016

        ALEPPO, SYRIA (9:30 A.M.) - The Russian Air Force gave the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) a much needed break inside Aleppo on Tuesday night after they had a long day of battle against the jihadist rebels of Jaysh Al-Fateh and Fatah Halab.

        With Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham (formerly Al-Nusra Front) mobilizing in western Aleppo, the Russian Air Force concentrated their efforts on this region of the provincial capital in order to disrupt the imminent jihadist assault.

        According to a military source in Aleppo City, the Russian Air Force carried out more than 20 airstrikes above the western outskirts of the provincial capital, targeting the Dahret 'Izza that is controlled by Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham.



        In addition to their airstrikes at the aforementioned site, the Russian Air Force targeted the 1070 Al-Hamdaniyah Housing Project, Sheikh Sa'eed District, Al-Oweija District, and Bustan Al-Basha District.
        .................


        Syrian Army makes new push in southwest Deir Ezzor


        By Leith Fadel -
        05/10/2016


        DEIR EZZOR, SYRIA (8:55 A.M.) - The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) continued their counter-attack in southwest Deir Ezzor on Tuesday, targeting the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham's (ISIS) defenses at the Jabal Thardeh region.

        Led by the 71st Regiment and 137th Artillery Brigade, the Syrian Armed Forces stormed Point 2 at Jabal Thardeh; this resulted in a fierce battle with the Islamic State terrorists at the eastern slopes of this mountaintop.

        Following an intense battle on Tuesday, the Syrian Armed Forces were able to secure their positions just outside of Point 2, leaving a small distance between their front-lines and the Islamic State's fortifications.



        According to a military source from the 104th Airborne of the Republican Guard, the Syrian Armed Forces killed 14 Islamic State militants on Tuesday, while also destroying 1 technical vehicle that was mounted with a 14.5mm anti-aircraft machine gun.

        The Syrian Armed Forces controlled Jabal Thardeh in early September; however, the U.S. Coalition's "accidental" airstrike on September 17th forced them to withdraw from this mountaintop.
        Last edited by troung; 05 Oct 16,, 14:14.
        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

        Comment


        • In Fight for Aleppo, Tangled Alliances Add to Chaos

          By ANNE BARNARDOCT. 6, 2016
          Continue reading the main story
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          http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/wo...ppo-syria.html

          BEIRUT, Lebanon — The Syrian civil war, and the intense new ground battle in the divided city of Aleppo, is often seen as a contest between a chaotic array of rebel groups and the Russian-backed government of President Bashar al-Assad. But the reality is that Mr. Assad’s side is increasingly just as fragmented as its opponents, a panoply of forces aligned largely along sectarian lines but with often-competing approaches and interests.

          There are Iraqi Shiite militiamen cheering for clerics who liken the enemy to foes from seventh-century battles. There are Iranian Revolutionary Guards battling for a Shiite theocracy. There are Afghan refugees hoping to gain citizenship in Iran, and Hezbollah militants whose leaders have long vowed to fight “wherever needed.”

          The Syrians themselves are in a few elite units from an army exhausted after five years of war, as well as pro-government militias that pay better salaries. And, yes, overhead there are the Russian pilots who have relentlessly bombed the rebel-held eastern side of Aleppo.

          “The government’s fighting force today consists of a dizzying array of hyper-local militias aligned with various factions, domestic and foreign sponsors, and local warlords,” was how one analyst, Tobias Schneider, recently summed up the situation.

          The battle for eastern Aleppo, where the United Nations says some 275,000 people are besieged, has raised tensions between the United States and Russia to their highest levels in years, but the Cold War rivals do not wield clear control over their nominal proxies. The competing interests on both sides and lack of clear leadership on either one is part of why the fighting has proved so hard to stop: Mr. Assad is desperate to retain power, Moscow is seeking to increase its clout at the global geopolitical table, Iran is exercising its regional muscle.
          Continue reading the main story

          While both Washington and Moscow say preservation of Syrian state institutions is a priority, a look at the fight for Aleppo, Syria’s largest city, shows that those structures are already atrophying.

          At least one elite Syrian Army unit has been filmed seizing positions in Aleppo, but the bulk of the pro-government force is made up militiamen trained and financed by Iran, the Shiite theocracy that is the Syrian government’s closest ally, according to experts, diplomats, regional officials and fighters battling for and against the government.

          “Aleppo is Shiite, and she wants her people,” goes a song overlaid onto a video posted online of an Iraqi cleric visiting Iraqi Shiite militia fighters on the front lines south of Aleppo. The message ignores the fact that the mainstream Shiite sect that accounts for the bulk of the Iraqi militias makes up less than 1 percent of Syria’s population.

          The government’s Aleppo offensive has moved aggressively in the past week, worsening an epic humanitarian crisis. Syrian or Russian airstrikes have hit seven hospitals and have killed hundreds of civilians, in what Moscow and Damascus describe as preparation for a final battle for the city.

          The Syrian military has dropped leaflets urging rebels to surrender and civilians to leave, but the United Nations says that pro-government forces have not allowed access to the escape routes, and that residents are afraid of arrest if they head to the government side.

          Pro-government ground forces have taken bites out of rebel territory from several directions, but have faced tough resistance in street fighting from insurgents who in many cases are defending their own neighborhoods.

          To the north, the Quds Brigade, made up mostly of Palestinians living in Aleppo, seized the Handarat Palestinian refugee camp, lost it to rebels, and seized it again. To the south, Iraqi militias and other fighters have battled rebels for crucial territory close to a water pumping center. Syrian Army forces, meanwhile, seized a neighborhood in central Aleppo near the ancient citadel.
          Continue reading the main story
          Continue reading the main story

          Areas taken by pro-government forces last week

          Handarat Palestinian

          refugee camp

          Direction of pro-government fronts

          Al-Shokaief

          industrial area

          Rebel

          control

          Pro-government forces

          advanced to this front toward

          Al-Owaija district this week

          KurdisH

          Control

          Bustan

          Aleppo



          Rebel

          control

          Al-Farafra neighborhood

          Aleppo Citadel

          Government

          Control

          Aleppo

          International Airport

          Sheikh Saeed

          1 mile

          Handarat

          Palestinian

          refugee camp

          1 mile

          Pro-government forces

          advanced to this

          front this week

          KurdisH

          Control

          Bustan

          Rebel

          control

          Al-Farafra

          neighborhood

          Aleppo Citadel

          Aleppo



          Government

          Control

          Sheikh Saeed

          Areas taken by pro-government forces last week

          Direction of pro-government fronts

          Areas taken by pro-government forces last week

          Handarat Palestinian

          refugee camp

          Direction of pro-government fronts

          Al-Shokaief

          industrial area

          Rebel

          control

          Pro-government forces

          advanced to this front toward

          Al-Owaija district this week

          KurdisH

          Control

          Bustan

          Aleppo



          Rebel

          control

          Al-Farafra neighborhood

          Aleppo Citadel

          Government

          Control

          Aleppo

          International Airport

          Sheikh Saeed

          1 mile
          Source: IHS Conflict Monitor (areas of control are as of Oct. 3)

          The New York Times

          As rebel groups called for a general mobilization, residents on their side have stockpiled equipment for digging wells, fuel for generators and seeds to grow food, in preparation for a lengthy siege.

          There is no precedent in the Syrian war for ground forces’ quickly rolling into an area that rebels have held for years. The disjointed forces, many with no local connections, are not strong enough to take fortified urban rebel positions in a frontal assault.

          Rather, airstrikes, artillery and starvation sieges have typically been used to force rebels to surrender in exchange for safe passage – a process that has taken months or years in places far smaller and less strategically vital than Aleppo. But it could go quicker if pro-government forces managed to take control of the water distribution plant and shut off water to the rebel side, or if thousands of Russian soldiers and veterans now working for private security contractors joined the ground battle.

          The Russian opposition-leaning newspaper RBK, citing a security service source, said that private Russian military companies had 1,000 to 2,500 employees in Aleppo and in one other Syrian city, Latakia, under the de facto command of Russian military intelligence officers. Russian special forces are also on the ground in Syria.
          Photo
          This photograph released by the Syrian government news agency shows forces loyal to President al-Assad after they recaptured areas in southwestern Aleppo in September. Credit SANA, via Reuters

          The messy mosaic of ground fighters on both sides has challenged Washington’s tangled allegiances. The United States is effectively allied with Iraqi Shiite militias to thwart the Islamic State in Iraq, but in Syria, some of those same militias are fighting on the side of the Assad government, which the United States opposes, and against a mix of rebel groups, some of them backed by the Obama administration.

          The front lines around Aleppo, as seen on video and described by witnesses, in some ways resemble those around Tikrit and Falluja in Iraq: in both countries, Shiite militia flags fly alongside, or sometimes instead of, those representing a shaky national army and government.

          In Iraq, militias have often acted as the tip of the spear, the first ground forces to enter after Iraqi government – and sometimes American – airstrikes. Similar scenes unfolded in northern Aleppo Province in February: after heavy Russian and Syrian airstrikes drove most people from villages, fighters from the Iraqi militia Harakat al-Nujabaa — the Noble Ones — Hezbollah and others fought rebel holdouts. Afterward, Syrian troops planted flags.

          The pro-government forces now mobilized around Aleppo include several thousand fighters from Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite militias known as the Popular Mobilization committees, which formed to fight the Islamic State in Iraq after it swept into large parts of that country in 2014.
          Photo
          A poster showing Mr. Assad and the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah outside Damascus in 2014. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times

          South of Aleppo, Iraqi clerics have given rousing speeches to militiamen in fatigues urging them to fight in the name of faith and Islamic law. The Nujabaa fighters and their supporters have circulated an Arabic hashtag on social media, #AleppoOurNextVictoryInSyria.

          Also fighting are Iranian troops and recruits from Iran’s sizable Afghan refugee population. The Iranian government has been increasingly open about the fact that these are not only advisers, as they were long portrayed.

          At least 400 Iranians and Afghans from Iran have died “defending the shrines” in Iraq and Syria, as the government describes it. In June, at least a dozen members of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps — some of them high-ranking — died in battles near Aleppo, and around that time some regular Iranian Army troops headed for Syria.

          Around Aleppo, sectarian battle cries can be heard on both sides. Some Sunni insurgents use slurs against the Shiites who lead their archenemy — Iran — and against the Alawites, the sect Mr. Assad belongs to. And some foreign Shiite militiamen call their enemies by the names of foes from the seventh-century battle of Karbala that split Sunnis from Shiites.
          Photo
          Syrian regime forces at a hospital after airstrikes in Aleppo last month. Credit George Ourfalian/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

          There is more cultural affinity between Russia and senior Syrian Army officers – steeped in secular Baathist ideology and often trained in the Soviet Union – than between Syria’s formal military and Iran and Hezbollah. But militarily, they are all interdependent.

          Mr. Assad needs the ground forces provided by Iran and Hezbollah, which in turn need Russian air power. At the same time, Iranian and Hezbollah officials have said that their fighters provide intelligence from the ground for targeting airstrikes.

          Before the war began in 2011, Syria had one of the largest and most professional armies in the region. But it has been eroded by tens of thousands of casualties, by untold numbers of men fleeing the country to avoid conscription, and by the practice of keeping many soldiers from the nation’s Sunni majority away from the front lines amid questions about loyalty.

          Some Syrian officers and government officials grumble about Iran and Hezbollah impinging on their sovereignty, complaining that their fighters earn more money than the Syrians and blow past checkpoints on the roads with the flash of a badge. Damascus residents complain about the foreign fighters with semiautomatic rifles making stands in famous neighborhoods once visited by tourists from all over the world, like the shrine of Sayeda Zeinab, and the Christian quarters of the Old City.

          In turn, both Russians and the foreign Shiite fighters have complained about a lack of discipline among Syrian conscripts. But while many Syrian soldiers are weary after years of war, the foreign militia ranks seem to have buoyant morale.

          The leader of the Iraqi Harakat al-Nujabaa, for example, can be seen in a video the group posted on Facebook telling his men to keep up the battle against extremists backed by the United States, the “Zionist entity” and “arrogant, colonial forces,” then offering “the secret of our victory.”

          “We are with God,” he said. “He won us the big victories.”

          On the video’s soundtrack, a singer then declared that when they see the militia’s fighters, “The people of Aleppo are happy.”

          The U.S.-Backed Groups In Syria That Say They Are Being Bombed By Russia
          October 02, 2015

          RFE/RL

          Men stand around a crater caused by what activists say was a Russian air strike in Latamineh on September 30 in the northern countryside of Hama.

          Men stand around a crater caused by what activists say was a Russian air strike in Latamineh on September 30 in the northern countryside of Hama.
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          At least two Syrian rebel groups backed by the United States say they were bombed in Russian air strikes this week in Moscow's bid to bolster its ally, President Bashar al-Assad, in the country's four-year-old civil war. Russia insists that the dozens of air raids targeted Islamic State (IS) militants and other "terrorists," while U.S. officials say Moscow appears to have bombed armed Syrian groups fighting both IS forces and Assad, who Washington says should not be part of a postwar Syrian government.

          U.S. Senator John McCain said in an October 1 interview with CNN that he could "absolutely confirm" that the Russian bombing campaign hit recruits in the U.S.-backed Free Syrian Army "that have been armed and trained by the CIA." Meanwhile, The New York Times quoted an unidentified senior U.S. official as saying this week that at least one and potentially more Syrian rebel groups covertly trained and armed by the CIA were targeted by Russian jets in the bombing campaign launched on September 30.

          Here's a snapshot of two U.S.-allied Syrian armed opposition groups that say their positions were attacked by Russian jets.

          Suqour al-Jabal

          Led by Hassan Haj Ali, a Syrian Army captain who defected to the opposition following the 2011 uprising against Assad, Suqour al-Jabal counts itself under the umbrella of the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a loose alliance of rebel formations that operate without a centralized command-and-control structure. Haj Ali told Reuters that the group's camp was struck by 20 missiles launched during two Russian sorties in Idlib Province. He told Buzzfeed that his battalion received support from Washington and its allies, while Reuters quoted him as saying that his fighters had received training in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

          According to the U.S.-based Carter Center, the Suqour al-Jabal Brigade was one of 11 armed opposition groups in northwestern Syria as of December 2014 that were receiving support from the Turkey-based Military Operations Center staffed by Arab and Western intelligence personnel, including CIA officials. Western military aid is routed to Syrian rebels through the center.

          While the Suqour al-Jabal group was presumably vetted by the United States to receive training and weapons, it has also battled Assad's forces alongside Al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, Jabhat al-Nusra (Al-Nusra Front), and the hard-line Islamist group Ahrar al-Sham. The group was one of several that consolidated under the banner Fatah Haleb and appears to have coordinated with these Islamist groups to launch a fierce July offensive targeting government-held areas of Aleppo.

          The New York Times reported that the more moderate and Islamist groups involved in the Aleppo offensive divided into distinct coalitions due to U.S. objections to assisting rebel groups that work directly with the Al-Nusra Front, which Washington has designated a terrorist group.

          It appears Moscow may have little regard for such distinctions. "If it looks like a terrorist, if it acts like a terrorist, if it walks, fights like a terrorist, it's a terrorist, right?" Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters at the United Nations on October 1.

          Tajamu Alezzah

          Based in the northern Syrian town of Lataminah, Tajamu Alezzah says it is opposed to both Assad and IS (also known as ISIS, or Daesh) militants. The group's leader, Jamil al-Saleh, defected from the Syrian Army in 2012. He told Reuters that eight of his fighters were wounded in Russian air strikes in the countryside of Hama Province, where the group has a headquarters.

          "The northern countryside of Hama has no presence of ISIS at all and is under the control of the Free Syrian Army," Saleh told Reuters. He said foreign powers had supplied Tajamu Alezzah with advanced antitank missiles, according to the Reuters report.

          Referring to the strike on the group's base, a U.S. official told The Washington Post that there was "no reason to doubt reports from the region that coalition-backed forces from Hama were hit" in the Russian bombing.

          Tajamu Alezzah fighters, which have received U.S.-provided TOW antitank missiles, have "been fighting for four years in north Hama," Saleh told The Daily Beast in an October 1 interview.

          "And there is nothing called Daesh or ISIS in this area. The closest ISIS position from us is 100 kilometers," he was quoted as saying.
          With reporting by Reuters, The Wall Street Journal, The Arab Weekly, AFP, dpa, The New York Times, The Daily Beast, and McClatchy
          http://www.rferl.org/a/syria-us-back.../27283508.html
          Last edited by troung; 06 Oct 16,, 22:04.
          To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

          Comment


          • Despite attention on Aleppo, Syria aflame on several fronts


            Published October 06, 2016
            · Associated Press


            http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10...al-fronts.html



            BEIRUT – The battle for Syria's Aleppo isn't the only major front between the tangle of adversaries clashing across the war-torn country.

            Opposition forces are on the offensive in the country's center trying to sever the government's connection between Aleppo and the capital, Damascus, which is itself at the edge of a major theater of the war. In the northwest, Turkish-backed opposition forces are battling Islamic State militants, while to the east government forces are weathering an Islamic State siege of Deir El-Zour.

            Here's a look at some of the battles around Syria:

            HAMA

            In the central province of Hama, insurgent groups led by the extremist Jund al-Aqsa have been on the offensive since late August, capturing dozens of villages and towns in areas close to the northwestern rebel stronghold of Idlib.

            The insurgents are now about 15 kilometers (nine miles) north of Syria's fourth-largest city, also called Hama.

            The militants aim to eventually block the main road used by the government to send supplies to the northern province of Aleppo, where the fighting has intensified in recent weeks.

            Among the major towns and villages captured by insurgents in Hama province are Halfaya, Maan and Soran. The government and its Russian allies have responded to the offensive with intense airstrikes.

            DAMASCUS AND THE SOUTH

            After retaking the once-opposition-held hub of Darya, on Damascus's southern outskirts, and forcing the evacuation of the 6,000 or so civilians and fighters trapped inside, the military and allied militias have turned their attention to the steadily shrinking zone of rebel control to the capital's northeast.

            The rebels in Douma and al-Nashabiyeh are beset by factional infighting over control of the limited resources that leak through the government's blockade. The opposition holds two pockets in northeastern Damascus, in the Jobar and Barzeh neighborhoods, from which they carry out daily shelling attacks on the city's government-held areas. Pro-government forces are close to sealing off these pockets from the larger rebel-controlled swath of territory on the capital's outskirts.

            Meanwhile, fighting rages between the ideologically-diverse rebel factions and pro-government forces in Daraa province, along the Jordanian border. A government crackdown against popular demonstrations in Daraa in 2011 sparked the ongoing civil war. And in neighboring Qunaitra province, Israeli jets are sporadically striking Syrian military positions near the occupied Golan Heights as stray shells fall on Israel.

            THE NORTHWEST

            Opposition fighters backed by Turkish ground and air forces continue to erode the Islamic State group's hold over northern Syria while also containing the U.S.-backed Syrian Kurdish forces that control most of the country's northern border. Turkey sees the Kurdish forces as an extension of its own outlawed Kurdish rebels.

            The fighting has not come without a cost to Turkey, which has lost nine soldiers on Syrian soil since intervening in August.

            The Turkish-Syrian opposition coalition is advancing in the direction of Dabiq, which occupies a central place in IS propaganda. The extremists, citing ancient prophecy, believe Dabiq will be the scene of an apocalyptic battle between Christianity and Islam. The group named its online magazine after the town, which it has occupied since August 2014.

            DEIR EL-ZOUR

            Syrian government forces and Islamic State militants are locked in battle over control of Deir El-Zour province, which is also the setting of some of the fiercest international coalition air raids against the extremists.

            The U.S.-led coalition is targeting bridges up and down the Euphrates River, leading the Syrian foreign ministry to accuse the air campaign of destroying the country's infrastructure.

            The extremists have kept the provincial capital, also called Deir el-Zour, under siege since 2014, but pro-government forces have withstood the encirclement thanks to air-dropped humanitarian assistance from the U.N. and weapons and ammunition flown into the nearby airport, which remains under government control.

            ALEPPO

            Rebel groups, President Bashar Assad's government and the government's international backers have committed thousands of fighters to the battle for Aleppo, Syria's largest city. The fierce fighting has prompted the U.N.'s special envoy to warn that thousands of civilians could be killed and the city "destroyed" if the Russian and Syrian air forces do not halt their bombardment of its rebel-held eastern neighborhoods.

            U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has described conditions in eastern Aleppo, where 275,000 people are trapped under a government siege, as "worse than a slaughterhouse."

            On Wednesday, Syria's military command announced it had scaled back its assault in order to allow civilians to evacuate, two weeks after it declared an all-out offensive for the east.

            In an urgent plea on Thursday, U.N. Special Envoy Staffan De Mistura proposed evacuating the estimated 900 al-Qaida-linked fighters holed up in the east in exchange for an end to the Russian and government bombardment.

            But rebel commanders said they could not trust the government to stop bombing, while Assad said there was no distinction between the al-Qaida-linked militants and the other estimated 7,000 opposition fighters in the city

            Jihadist rebels reject UN offer of safe pass from east Aleppo


            By Leith Fadel -
            07/10/2016

            ALEPPO, SYRIA (11:45 A.M.) - The jihadist rebels of Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham (formerly Al-Nusra Front) formally rejected the UN's offer of safe passage from the east Aleppo neighborhoods, despite being completely besieged by the Syrian Arab Army (SAA).

            Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham and their allies were initially offered by the leader of the United Nations' Special Envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura; however, their rejection on Thursday put an end to this humanitarian intervention.

            In order to comply with the UN's humanitarian requests, the Syrian Arab Air Force (SAAYF) has reduced the number of airstrikes over the east Aleppo neighborhoods.



            The reduction in airstrikes has had little impact on the Syrian Arab Army's performance in east Aleppo, as they have managed to capture several sites from the jihadist rebels, including the strategic Suleiman Al-Halabi District.
            ...



            Syrian Army captures key hilltop in southern Aleppo


            By Leith Fadel -
            07/10/2016


            ALEPPO, SYRIA (10:40 A.M.) - The Syrian Arab Army (SAA), alongside the Ba'ath Battalions and Hezbollah, launched their second round of attacks on the southern Aleppo district today, targeting the jihadist rebel defenses at Sheikh Sa'eed and the 1070 Al-Hamdaniyah Housing Project.

            Led by the 800th Regiment of the Republican Guard, the Syrian Armed Forces and their allies managed to capture the most important hilltop inside the Sheikh Sa'eed District after breaching Jaysh Al-Fateh's (Army of Conquest) first-line of defense.

            According to Liwaa Al-Quds' media wing, the Syrian Armed Forces and their allies imposed full-control of Sheikh Sa'eed Hill after a fierce battle with Jaysh Al-Fateh this morning.

            With Sheikh Sa'eed Hill under their control, the Syrian Armed Forces and their allies now possess the high ground inside the district, leaving the remaining jihadist rebels in serious trouble as the battle continues.

            Syrian Army, Hezbollah advance in southern Aleppo amid the crumbling jihadist defenses


            By Leith Fadel -
            07/10/2016
            2

            ALEPPO, SYRIA (3:15 A.M.) - The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) had a great day inside Aleppo City on Thursday, capturing large parts of the eastern and northern neighborhoods after a fierce battle with Harakat Nouriddeen Al-Zinki.

            Meanwhile, on Thursday night, the Syrian Armed Forces, backed by Hezbollah, continued their large-scale offensive in southern Aleppo, targeting the jihadist-held Sheikh Sa'eed District near Al-Ramouseh.

            According to an Al-Masdar correspondent in Aleppo, the Syrian Armed Forces and Hezbollah captured several building blocks inside Sheikh Sa'eed tonight, leaving a little more than half the district still under the control of Jaysh Al-Fateh (Army of Conquest).



            With the jihadist rebels suffering heavy losses at three different fronts in Aleppo, the Syrian Armed Forces will likely make another big push on Friday morning.
            Last edited by troung; 07 Oct 16,, 13:31.
            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

            Comment



            • Syrian Army captures key West Ghouta town


              By Leith Fadel -
              14/10/2016


              DAMASCUS, SYRIA (2:05 P.M.) - The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) renewed their large-scale offensive in the West Ghouta on Thursday morning, targeting the key town of Deir Khabyeh after taking a short hiatus to regroup for their successful operations near Khan Al-Sheih.

              Led by the 42nd Brigade of the 4th Mechanized Division, the Syrian Armed Forces began their assault yesterday, capturing the remaining farms outside the town's western flank.

              Following the seizure of these farms, the Syrian Armed Forces turned their attention to the strategic Air Battalion Base that is located directly west of Deir Khabiyeh; it would captured shortly after they launched their attack on this imperative military installation.



              With the town surrounded at two different flanks, the Syrian Armed Forces managed to break-through Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham's (formerly Al-Nusra Front) final line of defense and impose full control over Deir Khabiyeh this morning.

              As a result of their success this morning, the Syrian Armed Forces have now turned their attention to the strategic town of Khan Al-Sheih, which is located north of Deir Khabiyeh.

              Syrian Army captures Air Battalion Base in West Ghouta
              https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...e-west-ghouta/

              By Leith Fadel -
              13/10/2016

              DAMASCUS, SYRIA (7:50 P.M.) - Minutes ago, a coalition of Syrian Arab Army divisions seized the Air Battalion Base outside the key town of Deir Khabiyeh in the West Ghouta region.

              Led by the prestigious 42nd Brigade of the 4th Mechanized Division, the Syrian Arab Army captured the Air Battalion Base and its nearby checkpoints after advancing at Deir Khabiyeh's western flank.

              As a result of this advance, the Syrian Armed Forces are now at the western and southern entrances of Deir Khabiyeh, leaving the town partially flanked.



              With reinforcements from nearby Khan Al-Sheih as their only hope, Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham (formerly Al-Nusra Front) and Harakat Ahrar Al-Sham will attempt to forestall the Syrian Army's advance before they enter Deir Khabiyeh

              Free Syrian Army Colonel tortured to death by other FSA faction


              By Paul Antonopoulos -
              14/10/2016
              2
              The Syrian Network for Human Rights have claimed that Colonel Zaidan Nesairat of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) was tortured to death by another FSA faction. The cause was for trying to negotiate with the Syrian government in Daraa.

              Col. Nesairat was in Izraa negotiating for a reconciliation deal for Ibtaa after the Syrian Army had liberated Sheikh Miskeen a year ago.

              The family of Col. Nesairat and other militant factions have accused the leader of Sand al-Horan Battalion faction of the FSA, Ahmad al-'Owdah, of the murder and have made calls for his arrest.



              IMG_3833

              Shabab al-Sunna Division refused to hand his body back and buried him in unknown place, which will surely cause another internal civil war amongst the jihadist militants.
              .....
              Last edited by troung; 14 Oct 16,, 14:36.
              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

              Comment


              • After Aleppo: Syria Army Contemplating Its Next Major Offensive in 3 Key Areas

                © Sputnik/ Iliya PitalevMiddle East10:41 13.10.2016(updated 14:53 13.10.2016) Get short URLTopic: Battle Against Daesh in Syria (25) 410480711Although the battle for one of the major Syrian cities, Aleppo, is not over yet, the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) has apparently been planning its next major offensive that, an unnamed SAA source said, is likely to take place in the provinces of Idlib, Deir ez-Zor and Raqqa. Journalist Evgeny Krutikov assessed potential pros and cons of each option."All three areas are at the same time extremely appealing and highly risky," he wrote for the Russian newspaper Vzglyad.

                Deir ez-Zor The Deir ez-Zor offensive, according to Krutikov, "should have been launched" six months ago, but the SAA opted to free the embattled city of Aleppo. By freeing the province of Deir ez-Zor and lifting the blockade on the city of the same name, the Syrian military will be able to cut Daesh supply routes in eastern Syria, "bringing them on the brink of survival," he explained. "At the same time, the SAA will no longer have to put its efforts into the challenging task of maintaining a supply route to its remote and besieged garrison, while Russian aircraft will no longer have to fly maximum range hauling missions at high altitudes," he said. The journalist added that the Deir ez-Zor offensive will also help to mitigate the threat to Palmyra, the world-famous ancient ruins that the SAA freed in late March 2016. In addition, a desert spanning to the borders with Iraq and Jordan as well as fertile lands along the Euphrates will also return under the government control. © AFP 2016/ MEZAR MATARRebel fighters prepare to launch homemade mortar rounds at Syrian army forces on in the northern Syrian city of Raqqa.

                Raqqa
                Krutikov pointed out that the Syrian Arab Army had already tried to mount an offensive on Raqqa, often referred to as the capital of Daesh's caliphate, but that operation was badly organized and poorly executed. Damascus-led forces failed to reach the Euphrates and almost lost Palmyra while retreating. "Only heroic interference of Russian planes saved the day," he said. The Raqqa offensive, according to the journalist, could only be launched after the SAA pushes Daesh out of Deir ez-Zor. Government forces will then be able to redeploy troops to the left shore of the Euphrates and advance north towards Raqqa. © REUTERS/ Khalil AshawiA man walks past damaged buildings in the rebel-controlled area of Maaret al-Numan town in Idlib province, Syria, May 15, 2016
                Idlib
                Krutikov named the Idlib offensive as the key challenge since al-Nusra Front is primarily active in this province. This area is also heavily fortified and well-supplied. © AFP 2016/ LOUAI BESHARA'Civil War' Rages in Washington Over What to Do About Syria"Despite Ankara's posturing in recent months, Idlib mostly receives assistance from the Turkish territory. There is no lack of food, water, ammunition or money," he said. "This is also where various groups opposed to Damascus are located, a situation that Damascus to a certain extent created." The journalist warned that Idlib could turn into the next Aleppo in terms of a reaction from the West to a counterterrorism operation in the area. He further said that Idlib is the key province where so-called moderate groups should be decoupled from radical fighters, but added that the United States has been unable to do that. © Sputnik/ Morad SaeedGovernment forces in the Syrian province of Latakia "In twelve months, government forces slowly breached massive defenses of the militants in the mountain ranges of Latakia and Idlib. This has been primarily achieved due to the assistance of the Russian Aerospace Forces," he said. "Ahead of them lies a valley all the way to the Turkish border. It is hard to say what risks (apart from political ones) a potential offensive to the north holds." Earlier an unnamed source in the SAA told RIA Novosti that "the most important tasks" for Damascus-led forces were in the provinces of Deir ez-Zor, Raqqa and Idlib.

                Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...ext-operation/
                .....

                Western Media Keeps Silent While Al-Nusra Militants Killing Children in Aleppo

                © REUTERS/ Abdalrhman IsmailMiddle East14:35 14.10.2016(updated 14:36 14.10.2016) Get short URL41731302Government-controlled areas of Syrian Aleppo were once again shelled by militants. The shelling killed seven children and injured ten. Western media ignored the tragedy since its does not correspond with West’s stance towards the Syrian crisis.Children Were Attacked While Going to School On Thursday, at 8:00 a.m. local time, children in Aleppo were going to school. Right at this time, Islamists shelled the Christian district of Suleiman with mortars. © Sputnik/ Mikhail AlayeddinTerrorist Shelling Kills Over 130 Children in Aleppo Since Start of SeptemberSeveral shells exploded near the school’s entrance, killing seven children. Ten children were injured as a result of the shelling. They were hospitalized with wounds of varying severity, a representative of Al Razi hospital told RIA Novosti.

                Almost every day, militants blocked in eastern Aleppo shell the western part of the city and front-line areas. Shelling usually intensifies when the Syrian Army carries out offensive operations. Several families were among the casualties of the shelling. One girl was killed during the shelling and her brother was severely wounded and hospitalized. Doctors are continuing to save his life. "The shell exploded very close to him. The boy sustained shrapnel wounds and severe brain damage. There are shell fragments in his head. Chances are small, but his heart is still beating and we will fight for his life," Doctor Dzhan Fattouh told RIA Novosti. © REUTERS/ Abdalrhman IsmailUN Foresees No Improvement in Humanitarian Conditions in Syrian AleppoAccording to Syrian doctors, since the beginning of September, a total of over 130 children have been killed in shelling of residential areas. All of them died from shrapnel or gunshot injuries. Militants shells the western part of Aleppo with mortars and "hellfire" guns, leaving dozens killed and hundreds wounded every day, Lt. Gen. Sergei Rudskoy, Chief of the Russian General Staff's Main Operational Directorate, told reporters. "All the parties involved in the conflict have been committing crimes, including killings, injures, attacks on schools and hospitals as well as blockade of humanitarian supplies. This must be stopped," UNICEF Regional Chief of Communication for Middle East & North Africa Juliette Touma told RT. Western Media Ignores the Tragedy © Sputnik/ Mikhail AlayeddinUS Ready 'to Do Whatever It Takes to Prevent Assad From Liberating Aleppo'Despite the scope of the incident, Western media has almost ignored it. However, journalists have access to the area and hospitals with wounded children.

                "Today, I’ve read and watched news reports, and there was nothing about this shelling," Nikolai Pakhomov, president of the New York Consulting Bureau, said. "The reason is that American media translates those views of domestic and foreign affairs that correspond with the policy of the US establishment. Its official position is that Syrian President Bashar Assad is to blame for the situation in Syria, and Russia is helping him. The recent shelling of Aleppo contradicts this approach, so the situation has been ignored in media," he pointed out. However, alternative views of the situation are also presented in Western media. "Right activists, experts and some media outlets have repeatedly said that Assad’s opponents committed crimes. But the overall situation is what I described," the expert told RIA Novosti. UN Attempting to Resolve the Aleppo Crisis Currently, nearly 600 wounded people need to be evacuated as soon as possible from Aleppo, including 400 children. However, the UN does not have the entire list, UN Deputy Special Envoy for Syria Ramzy Ezzeldin Ramzy said Thursday. "Utmost in our mind is the need to address the very concerning medical situation. Many hospitals have been damaged by airstrikes and medical supplies are dwindling. It is estimated that as many as 600 wounded cannot be provided with adequate treatment," he said during a briefing in Geneva. © AFP 2016/ RAMI AL-SAYEDDe Mistura's Aleppo Plan May Be Implemented in Case of Ceasefire

                He also underscored that medical evacuation from Aleppo is impossible until a ceasefire is established in the city. The situation remains difficult, but there are options to improve it, he added. One of those scenarios was recently proposed by UN Special Envoy for Syria Staffan de Mistura. On October 6, he proposed to accompany militants from the Nusra Front jihadist group if they wanted to leave Aleppo with arms and to head for the city of Idlib. He added that there were some 900 militants of the group in the war-torn city. However, Ramzy said that al-Nusra Front rejected the proposal. "De Mistura made an appeal, he made an appeal directed to al-Nusra, but he also made an appeal to those who can help with the appeal. We have heard from al-Nusra, not surprisingly, a negative response," he said. However, the UN hopes that militants will withdraw from the city. "Our understanding is that this particular appeal has found resonance in certain quarters, and they are working to make it happen and we hope that this will be the case," Ramzy added. © \\turn, the Russian military said that it is ready to secure withdrawal of armed militants from eastern Aleppo, Rudskoy told journalists. However, the Syrian government was skeptical about de Mistura’s offer. "De Mistura was not serious about his proposal because he did not secure it in the UN Security Council," Syrian National Reconciliation Minister Ali Haider told RIA Novosti. According to the minister, al-Nusra Front militants will not leave Aleppo voluntarily.

                Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...ists-shelling/
                Last edited by troung; 14 Oct 16,, 14:51.
                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                Comment


                • Iraq-Turkey tension rises amid battle for Mosul

                  Iraq's prime minister has warned Turkey against provoking a confrontation while saying he does not want war.

                  Haider al-Abadi made the comments after Turkey deployed tanks and artillery near the Iraqi border and insisted that any Turkish involvement would be a violation of national sovereignty.

                  Turkey wants a a role in the battle to retake Mosul from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group, by virtue of being a member of the anti-ISIL coalition.


                  However, Abadi rejected this assertion and repeatedly called on Turkey to withdraw troops it has deployed near the northern city.

                  "The invasion of Iraq will lead to Turkey being dismantled," Abadi said in a televised news conference on Tuesday.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

                  Comment


                  • Looks like Mosul and Aleppo are going to be taken over soon. It is now matter of time.....
                    What do you think would be next moves? Will Asad goes to Idlib or to Deir-E-Zor?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by snapper View Post

                      No I wasn't there but when you have drawn a 'red line' if you back out because someone asks you to then do you must expect people to question your credibility.

                      So, this is what I don't get:
                      1. No one wanted US boots on the ground in Syria.
                      2. No one wanted to be in the position of supporting a murderous, terroristic regime against murderous, terroristic fundamentalists.
                      3. No one wanted to be in the position of having to support murderous, terroristic fundamentalists against a murderous, terroristic regime.
                      4. No one wanted Assad to get away with using chemical weapons, or continue to use them.
                      And, with few exceptions,
                      5. Almost no one likes the US playing global policeman.

                      So, President Obama manages to avoid the first three, hope for the best on No. 4, and put Putin in the position of responsibility for any failure.

                      Question: what would you have done differently?
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                        Question: what would you have done differently?
                        Likely I would have done a lot of the same as Obama dependent on what advice I get.

                        You have this situation in Iraq, where to win you need to likley stay decades or you declare some type of "victory" and get out.
                        Several decades in Iraq is not possible so you try to get an Iraqi army going so that once you leave thing do not go totally to hell.
                        (to the tune of tens of billions)

                        After that the arab spring starts. From the news reporting it seems that arabs want democracy.
                        Did intel brief Obama that Islamists would take over if regimes in the middle east become unstable?

                        So you support the arab spring and destabilize Lybia, Egypt and Syria.
                        Not a weird move if you believe that the arabs would move towards more democracy.
                        And you "double down" on that support in Syria after Assad uses (alledgedly?) chemical weapon on his civilians.
                        Did intel brief Obama that he was supporting Islamists against Assad?

                        Then you have the rise of ISIS. The Iraqi army you have spend billions on training turn out to be complete $#it.
                        After you left the people that become the future ISIS get out of Iraqi jail.
                        Was Obama briefed that the Iraqi army is complete $#it and that it cannot handle any situation after an US pullout.
                        Given that they usually shoot the messenger: "Who wants to be the general to tell Obama that the billions spent on the Iraqi army are wasted?"

                        Now you arrive at the current situation where the Russians stepped in with respect to Syria.
                        You have committed yourself to fighting Assad and switching sides cannot be done without loss of face.
                        Libya is crap, luckily in Egypt the military has taken over from the Islamists.

                        Oh and you have started a drone war in Jemen and have made a nuclear deal with Iran.

                        Now what do you do when you are not an expert in a field and you suspect the experts of lies.
                        I would likely have.
                        - Pulled out of Iraq and train an Iraqi army or do the Luttwak variation of this dependent on how efficient I believe the Iraqi army is.
                        - Support the Arab spring provided that I believe that this move the middle east towards democracy or more freedom
                        - Be totally surprised by the rise of ISIS unless I was warned of this by the CIA.

                        I would not likely have done a drone war on Yemen and minimizede drone strikes on Pakistan.

                        However an alarming amount of things would have been the same given the information publicly available at the time in the mainstream media.

                        - So the information publicly available in the mainstream media is completely inadequate for making good decisions. (quality journalism is dead)
                        - The information you get from experts and intel are suspect, because most top level officials will not risk their career to give you an honest answer even if it is
                        in their country's best interest to do so.

                        PS

                        To be honest I suspect that some US generals and intel agencies are not above telling straight out lies to the US president.

                        I base this on what I've seen during the Bush administration.
                        Back then there seem to have been the concensus that a guerrilla type war in Iraq would not happen or only take a few years.
                        Then an insurgency happened, but they though it would only take a few years.
                        Usually fighting a insurgency take decades, but at the time I thought that with the expertise and the secret info available to the Bush govt.
                        they might know something I didn't so maybe they are right and it will only take a few years.

                        I guess no general wanted to risk his career by giving Bush a straight answer that to win this you need decades of time and effort.
                        I cannot be 100% sure that this was the case, though.

                        If career generals advising the president is the problem, then you will not see an improvement with Trump or any other president for that matter.

                        Comment


                        • Luttwak variation of pullout: http://www.comw.org/pda/fulltext/0512luttwak.pdf

                          Iraq: The Logic of Disengagement

                          Yet Iraq cannot simply be evacuated, its fledgling government
                          abandoned to face emboldened Baath loyalists and Sunni-Arab
                          revanchists with their many armed groups, local and foreign Islamists
                          with their terrorist skills, and whatever Shiite militias are left out of
                          the government. In such a contest, the government, with its newly
                          raised security forces of doubtful loyalty, is unlikely to prevail. Nor are
                          the victors likely to divide the country peacefully among themselves;
                          civil war of one kind or another would almost certainly follow. An
                          anarchical Iraq would both threaten the stability of neighboring coun-
                          tries and oªer opportunities for their interference—which might even
                          escalate to the point of outright invasions by Iran, or Turkey, or both,
                          initiating new cycles of resistance, repression, and violence.
                          Once U.S. soldiers have left Iraqi cities, towns,
                          and villages, some could remain a while in remote desert bases to
                          fight off full-scale military attacks against the government
                          —but
                          even this could incite opposition, as happened in Saudi Arabia.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                            So, this is what I don't get:
                            1. No one wanted US boots on the ground in Syria.
                            We are on the ground in Syria

                            2. No one wanted to be in the position of supporting a murderous, terroristic regime against murderous, terroristic fundamentalists.
                            True.

                            3. No one wanted to be in the position of having to support murderous, terroristic fundamentalists against a murderous, terroristic regime.
                            True.

                            Except you conveniently forgot there were major contingents of secular freedom seeking revolutionaries, who were initially a major player, whom both the government and the terrorist seeked to eliminate, and whom we left to die or radicalize.... to good effect and the thorough satisfaction of both the government and the terrorists. In fact, we followed the terrorists' (Assad-Iran-Russian axis, and ISIS) playbook perfectly.

                            4. No one wanted Assad to get away with using chemical weapons, or continue to use them.
                            He got away with it scot-free. It will be used again when needed.

                            And, with few exceptions,
                            5. Almost no one likes the US playing global policeman.
                            Like is irrelevant. Opposition should be expected. We are not policemen, but ranchers on the frontier who need to implement some semblance or law and order before things go totally to s***. Thus we need to act to ensure both our interests and the synergistic promotion of our values. It requires constant action and we ignore, hesitate or wobble at our own peril.

                            So, President Obama manages to avoid the first three, hope for the best on No. 4, and put Putin in the position of responsibility for any failure.
                            He managed to fail.

                            Question: what would you have done differently?
                            I would have lead the nation and our allies to succeed. This is an exceptionally difficult task. You and I sitting here debating option A, B or C is totally not useful because no option could even be correctly assessed without marshaling all of our military, intelligence, and diplomatic capabilities and intellects via effective Presidential leadership.

                            In other words, only a president could do this. That's why whom we elect president is essential. Obama was not up to the task.
                            Last edited by citanon; 08 Jan 17,, 22:33.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                              Except you conveniently forgot there were major contingents of secular freedom seeking revolutionaries, who were initially a major player, whom both the government and the terrorist seeked to eliminate, and whom we left to die or radicalize.... to good effect and the thorough satisfaction of both the government and the terrorists. In fact, we followed the terrorists' (Assad-Iran-Russian axis, and ISIS) playbook perfectly.
                              Sorry, but these "major contingents" of moderate secular headchoppers...err I mean rebels existed only in the imaginations of liberal western media. I'll point you to the hilarious fiasco that was the $500 million pentagon program to train an army of moderate rebels to fight ISIS.

                              The "real" rebels always included Sunni radical jihadi militia like Al-Nusra and the others. They were all always together and received a lot of funds and weapons from your GCC allies. The only time the moderate rebels popped up in the media was when they wanted something from the US. Any weapons given to them would always be shared amongst everyone. If the Russians hadn't stepped in they would have defeated Assad and then fought with each other for control like in Libya or 90's Afghanistan. Obama did Syria and the world a favor by not joining the jihadis against Assad and causing a bigger mess.

                              The liberal western media's bs about the secular freedom fighters of Syria reminds me of this sh1t from 1993:

                              Last edited by Firestorm; 08 Jan 17,, 23:35.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                                Sorry, but these "major contingents" of moderate secular headchoppers...err I mean rebels existed only in the imaginations of liberal western media. I'll point you to the hilarious fiasco that was the $500 million pentagon program to train an army of moderate rebels to fight ISIS.
                                The fiasco happened because they had some ridiculous fantasy of verifying and thoroughly investigating each one, and then telling them to prioritize fighting the Islamists but not Assad.

                                The "real" rebels always included Sunni radical jihadi militia like Al-Nusra and the others. They were all always together and received a lot of funds and weapons from your GCC allies. The only time the moderate rebels popped up in the media was when they wanted something from the US. Any weapons given to them would always be shared amongst everyone. If the Russians hadn't stepped in they would have defeated Assad and then fought with each other for control like in Libya. Obama did Syria and the world a favor by not joining the jihadis against Assad and causing a bigger mess.
                                It's folly to think one could control the exact flow of weapons in war. Yet, it was equally foolish to think that one could not support a favored contingent because of the lack of control. What instead happened was that everyone except the moderates got support.

                                Assad, as much as anybody, helped ISIS rise. He most likely helped engineer it to direct the Western end game. He's the biggest terrorist of all in Syria and he and his ally Iran are our biggest long term problem. Now they are ascendant with Russia thrown into the mix.

                                Comment

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