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Thread: Syrian Civil War Developments

  1. #2926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    The "destabilization forces" that neutered Assad and toppled Gaddafi are a bigger threat to US natl. security (and even more to European security) than Assad and Gaddafi ever were. Letting Saddam crush them would seem to have been the better option then wouldn't it? In fact, if Saddam had been there ISIS might have never been formed in the first place.
    Let's see. We have 3 men with proven track records of seeking nukes, able to field national armies at the division and corps level vs now where a city can be taken or held by 300 men. And ISIL at its height never measured more than 25,000 men.

    Saddam, Qaddafy, and Assad were a 100 times more powerful than what's around today and they were seeking nukes and stocking piling biochems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    To be clear, i'm not saying things would be better with Saddam. Trying to look forward.


    We end up back in 2010 after the US leaves. There is no reason to remain in Iraq. A year from now i expect they wind up and leave.

    Depending on how Iran plays this, those groups you mention start up again.

    When the Iranian militias were fighting IS, their slogans & songs weren't anti-IS. They were anti-Sunni.

    Who killed Ali, those who love Ayesha, bashing Abu Bakr etc.

    There is a real Sunni fear that they will be at risk. The same thing happened with Assad and the Gulf sent those terrorists over. Al Nusra etc.

    If it remains sectarian and contained then we wait until things clear.

    If it leads to another IS, then others will be drawn in.
    All you are saying is that Iraq will continue to be a freaking hostile mess and that more than anything else will prevent Iranian control over the country. The Americans with all their money could not get everyone to play nice and you think the hated broke Persian neighbours could do better?

  3. #2928
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Let's see. We have 3 men with proven track records of seeking nukes, able to field national armies at the division and corps level vs now where a city can be taken or held by 300 men. And ISIL at its height never measured more than 25,000 men.

    Saddam, Qaddafy, and Assad were a 100 times more powerful than what's around today and they were seeking nukes and stocking piling biochems.
    No.
    You don't have three men, you have one ideology symbolized by those three men and that ideology was holding the things together. That was the Ba'ath Party ideology or, lets face it, an Muslim version of the socialism. Now when the ideology is dead, only faith remains and in the case of Middle East, that means perpetual war and never ending cycle of violence.

    As the main source of wealth drains aka the oil,the perspectives for the "new Golden age" will dwindle much faster and in a very short period of time, you will have unsustainable population levels and all the mess that this situation creates. The whole Middle East is basically an matriarchal hell hole where natural laws have been deified for centuries ( the Virgin Маry, the Hurries, the harems, the Arabian nights or if you like to go to Iran aka Persia where we have Scheherazade). This basically means that the identity of the man in the Middle East is totally externally validated, in essence by a woman. His worth is measured by the way how he "controls the woman" but in reality he is controlled by a woman. Other men judge him by that standard, the society judges him by that standard and therefore the whole culture revolves around "objectified" woman figure, but in essence the whole narrative of the Middle East, serves and caters to every primordial woman's need. Without a woman, the middle eastern men loses his purpose and is faced with an absolute void in his soul. That is why he needs to make an fictional construct aka the faith to fill his emptiness. The more narcissistic, the more grandiose that this fictional narrative is, the safer he feels and more "confident" in his "freedom" and identity. His aggression and barbarism is only an reflection of his deep inner fear because deep down he knows who the real master is and that notion rips him apart from the inside and he will take anything to ease that. Bounded to the womb, he has only one choice and only one direction in life and that is to be so called "alpha male", brutal savage and psychopath that cuts heads, rapes and pillages everything around him. His aggression is a pitiful expression of his inner torment, but because his identity is externalized his inner struggle is externalized also. However, since the cause of his problem is inside and he seeks the solutions outside, his existence is doomed to perpetual failure which than boomerangs back to him and increases his frustration which than induces even more anxiety that than propels him to go even further towards the outside.
    He is forever poised on expansion and domination of the external in order sooth his internal emptiness. However since the universe is infinite, all his efforts are doomed to failure and he is chained to the failure forever and as every narcissist he is unable to admit that he is wrong, he will always blame the outside world for his demise, thus his life will be the stage of perpetual conflict,paranoia, aggression and futility of everything he does. Only reason why they were able to endure in this illusion for so long is the reason why this illusion exists in the first place. The womb always rewards the winners, aka the most savage and most dominant ones and trough perpetual conflict, the womb ensures that what it gets is the best of the best. The Womb also despises and hates the smart ones and this ensures that no development is possible on the vertical scale and that only ensures its brutal merciless grip on the whole society. Simply, they don't have a chance, what so ever, because the whole system is based on female pathological desire for safety aka female paranoia from being with a man that she deems "inferior" and not worthy of reproduction.

    I see this every day as I have half of the Benghazi in my neighbourhood and the way how migrants behave, only confirms all this.

    Here is the true reason of the Middle Eastern perpetual turmoil and the reason why they stockpiling chems and seeking nukes.

    https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other...ind/ar-AAGe4ZD
    Last edited by Versus; 15 Feb 20, at 20:58.

  4. #2929
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    The more I look at the Middle East and the more I understand women, the more I am convinced of the need for ISIL. ISIL is not defeated nor it is destroyed, it is in a state of flux and seeks a new soil where it will re emerge again. The fact that it got hold of the ground, regardless how small it was, is extremely important because it showed to the Muslims that it could be done and that it is possible and ISIL is the true nature and state of Islam, that is its original form. When seen from that perspective, it is completely understandable, at least to me, why Muslims across the whole world are unhappy and why they do the things that they do. Forcing them to accept modernity, forcing them to follow Western models will never work and the more they are forced to accept it, the more they will rebel and fight against it. The idiotic idea about re arranging the middle east into some state where they will have, democracy is so insane and so ridiculous that I don't have the words to describe it. Even if it happens, the article above, shows why it will be in vain. Like the Western democracy is brought down by rabid feminists and leftists, the Islamic democracy will be brought down by women from that article. Since they are the gate keepers of evolution and actually the protectors of the human race, they need the savages to protect them form the "unworthy" ones and they feel safest within the savage society. Actually they don't care about the religion, they are pro savage and the system that constantly breeds savages suits them the best. In their ideal world, the whole setting is the arena where men kill each other and the winner gets the magic triangle. That is what they want, they want natural selection trough tournament to help them pick the best genes in physical sense, since physical is all that they care. All they want is a ton of low IQ aggressive men that cannot control their impulses killing each other so that they can harvest the DNA. No rules, no democracy, no laws nothing, pure jungle where only the strongest survives and propagates its DNA.

  5. #2930
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    The more I look at the Middle East and the more I understand women, the more I am convinced of the need for ISIL. ISIL is not defeated nor it is destroyed, it is in a state of flux and seeks a new soil where it will re emerge again. The fact that it got hold of the ground, regardless how small it was, is extremely important because it showed to the Muslims that it could be done and that it is possible and ISIL is the true nature and state of Islam, that is its original form. When seen from that perspective, it is completely understandable, at least to me, why Muslims across the whole world are unhappy and why they do the things that they do.
    They are unhappy because they are not in charge. They used to have an empire. Look at the people who ended up in ISIL, the ones who go on lone wolf rampages in the west. What demographic do they come from.

    Tom Friedman put it succintly, these people never ask what is wrong with me, always what you did to me.

    Forcing them to accept modernity, forcing them to follow Western models will never work and the more they are forced to accept it, the more they will rebel and fight against it. The idiotic idea about re arranging the middle east into some state where they will have, democracy is so insane and so ridiculous that I don't have the words to describe it. Even if it happens, the article above, shows why it will be in vain.
    As if democracy is the sole preserve of the west. I was completely behind the neocons when they embarked on their project. Behind the MB in Egypt. A supporter of the arab spring and against all those who stood in its way You never know unless you try and you try and try until you succeed.

    Are the Afghans looking forward to the return of the Taliban who will send them back to the dark ages ?

    The problem with democracy is its expensive. It takes organisation to sustain itself. If a society is not configured in such a way because you have a few who grab power and then con the masses into accepting them as some leader then these people remain as is.

    See what you said about the ME, matriarchal hell hole. Lands of scarce resources and no fertile land. It's only when the oil shows up they have an alternative.

    Environment determines which way the society goes. Whether they stay content and sit put because they have everything they need or whether they have to go grab it from some one else.

    Like the Western democracy is brought down by rabid feminists and leftists, the Islamic democracy will be brought down by women from that article. Since they are the gate keepers of evolution and actually the protectors of the human race, they need the savages to protect them form the "unworthy" ones and they feel safest within the savage society. Actually they don't care about the religion, they are pro savage and the system that constantly breeds savages suits them the best. In their ideal world, the whole setting is the arena where men kill each other and the winner gets the magic triangle. That is what they want, they want natural selection trough tournament to help them pick the best genes in physical sense, since physical is all that they care. All they want is a ton of low IQ aggressive men that cannot control their impulses killing each other so that they can harvest the DNA. No rules, no democracy, no laws nothing, pure jungle where only the strongest survives and propagates its DNA.
    Then it would not have been possible to get out of the hunter gatherer stage. No scope for civilisation. We should all be aborigines.

    No Babylon, no Pharoahs, no Phonecians, no Sassanids etc etc.

    The reality is constant war precludes development and most would rather be content if they had enough to eat and a roof over their head. When that gets curbed due to climate it forces a group to look for greener pastures. To go forth and conquer.

    Maybe they need to cool it with the Islam and explore other avenues. Traditional, raw form of Islam was good for the 7th century, it won't work in the 21st. See, how they are alienating people around the world with their behaviour. It's caused some serious thinking in the house of Saud, the keeper of the faith. Which path they want to do down.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Feb 20, at 21:07.

  6. #2931
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    Turkish involvement didnt stop a steady wave of russian air strikes


    The Defense Post
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    Staff Writer • February 20, 2020
    Categories Air Middle East War
    Russia conducts airstrikes against Turkey-backed forces in Idlib
    Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-24
    Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-24 at Latakia Air Base, Syria. Image: mil.ru

    Russia on Thursday urged Turkey to stop “supporting terrorists” in Syria, saying Su-24 warplanes had carried out airstrikes against armed groups backed by Ankara.

    “We urge the Turkish side, in order to avoid incidents, to cease support of the actions of terrorists and handing them arms,” the Russian defense ministry said in a February 20 statement.

    Russia, which backs Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, accused Turkey of aiding rebels fighting government forces in the northwestern Idlib province by firing artillery as the rebels carried out an attack.

    The defense ministry said that on Syria’s request its bombers carried out strikes on “terrorist armed formations,” allowing the Syrian forces to repel the attack. It said four Syrian troops were injured in the attack.

    Earlier Thursday, fighters from the Hamza and Sultan Murad groups, which fight under the banner of the Turkey-backed Syrian National Army, said they had launched an offensive against Assad’s forces and its Russian allies in the town of Nayrab in eastern Idlib province.

    Separately, Turkey said two of its soldiers had been killed in an airstrike in Idlib, with Fahrettin Altun, the Turkish president’s communications director, blaming the Syrian regime.

    The Russian defense ministry said it told Ankara that it had spotted Turkish artillery firing on Syrian units, wounding four soldiers.

    “We note this is not the first case of support for rebel fighters by Turkey,” the defense ministry said.

    Turkey asked the U.S. to deploy two Patriot missile defense-batteries to deter any further attacks, Bloomberg news reported.

    “Ankara could use F-16 warplanes to strike units loyal to Assad in Idlib if the Patriots were deployed in Hatay on Turkey’s border to provide protection,” the report quoted an unnamed Turkish official as saying.

    Russia on Wednesday warned Turkey against attacking Syrian forces after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened to launch an operation in Syria’s Idlib region.

    With reporting from AFP
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  7. #2932
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    They are unhappy because they are not in charge. They used to have an empire. Look at the people who ended up in ISIL, the ones who go on lone wolf rampages in the west. What demographic do they come from.

    Tom Friedman put it succintly, these people never ask what is wrong with me, always what you did to me.


    As if democracy is the sole preserve of the west. I was completely behind the neocons when they embarked on their project. Behind the MB in Egypt. A supporter of the arab spring and against all those who stood in its way You never know unless you try and you try and try until you succeed.

    Are the Afghans looking forward to the return of the Taliban who will send them back to the dark ages ?

    The problem with democracy is its expensive. It takes organisation to sustain itself. If a society is not configured in such a way because you have a few who grab power and then con the masses into accepting them as some leader then these people remain as is.

    See what you said about the ME, matriarchal hell hole. Lands of scarce resources and no fertile land. It's only when the oil shows up they have an alternative.

    Environment determines which way the society goes. Whether they stay content and sit put because they have everything they need or whether they have to go grab it from some one else.


    Then it would not have been possible to get out of the hunter gatherer stage. No scope for civilisation. We should all be aborigines.

    No Babylon, no Pharoahs, no Phonecians, no Sassanids etc etc.

    The reality is constant war precludes development and most would rather be content if they had enough to eat and a roof over their head. When that gets curbed due to climate it forces a group to look for greener pastures. To go forth and conquer.

    Maybe they need to cool it with the Islam and explore other avenues. Traditional, raw form of Islam was good for the 7th century, it won't work in the 21st. See, how they are alienating people around the world with their behaviour. It's caused some serious thinking in the house of Saud, the keeper of the faith. Which path they want to do down.
    If the resources are scarce it wouldn't be the cradle of so many civilizations. Resources are not the problem, the human factor is. At the core, it is not about religion yet it is about mixture of factors and yes, climate does play the crucial role. Everything that is close to the equator has a serious problem with the delaying of gratification and being able to delay gratification is the key to build an civilized society. People in the west, or to be actually totally precise, people of the north are able to delay gratification and thus are able to plan ahead. Not only that they are able to plan ahead, they are able to stick to the plan as it progresses. This indicates that north favours intelligence more than anything while the south is opposite, it favours action. Doing instead of thinking. Add to that that this type of behaviour is supported and upheld by women and you are in a locked state of perpetual disarray on all fronts.
    Islam tried to mend this, to bring some sense of order into the chaos but unfortunately it failed as it was able only to contain it but not defeat it. That is the narrative behind jihad, constant struggle constant fighting both on the inner plane and within one self. Supernatural narrative aside, to me it looks that it simply tires to contain perpetual decay of any thought and reason, simply because the womb doesn't want to mate with the smart but only with the strong. And strong tend to be on the lower side of the IQ spectrum.

  8. #2933
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    If the resources are scarce it wouldn't be the cradle of so many civilizations. Resources are not the problem, the human factor is. At the core, it is not about religion yet it is about mixture of factors and yes, climate does play the crucial role. Everything that is close to the equator has a serious problem with the delaying of gratification and being able to delay gratification is the key to build an civilized society.
    You seem to advocate the wahabi form of Islam as the only true Islam. This is a radical view itself. Leaving the Shi'i schism aside and looking at just Sunni.

    Take a look at the various schools of Islamic jurisprudence here

    Why would those schools come about ? 7th century Islam would not work for them. As islam spread its followers were mostly in the minority. They needed a code that allowed them to survive. Being absolutist was only going to get them attacked and the movement stopped. The bulk of muslims live in South & SE Asia. Much closer to the equator than the Arabs. The South & SE form of Islam is more moderate as the people here have to interact with different faiths. These people should have a louder voice as they have the numbers instead of the Arabs dominating the narrative. Things are changing as other countries become more prosperous and the Gulf more anxious about its wealth in the future.

    People in the west, or to be actually totally precise, people of the north are able to delay gratification and thus are able to plan ahead. Not only that they are able to plan ahead, they are able to stick to the plan as it progresses. This indicates that north favours intelligence more than anything while the south is opposite, it favours action. Doing instead of thinking. Add to that that this type of behaviour is supported and upheld by women and you are in a locked state of perpetual disarray on all fronts.
    In my case the invaders came from the North & West. Arabs, Mongols & Euros. It would seem they were more into action.

    Islam tried to mend this, to bring some sense of order into the chaos but unfortunately it failed as it was able only to contain it but not defeat it. That is the narrative behind jihad, constant struggle constant fighting both on the inner plane and within one self. Supernatural narrative aside, to me it looks that it simply tires to contain perpetual decay of any thought and reason, simply because the womb doesn't want to mate with the smart but only with the strong. And strong tend to be on the lower side of the IQ spectrum.
    The moderate forms of jihad are about inner struggle. However that is not what the radicals believe. For them its about conquest. One group wants to live with the rest the other wants to subjugate it. They don't care if they are in the minority. They will resort to ethnic cleansing if necessary to even out the demographic.

  9. #2934
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You seem to advocate the wahabi form of Islam as the only true Islam. This is a radical view itself. Leaving the Shi'i schism aside and looking at just Sunni.

    Take a look at the various schools of Islamic jurisprudence here

    Why would those schools come about ? 7th century Islam would not work for them. As islam spread its followers were mostly in the minority. They needed a code that allowed them to survive. Being absolutist was only going to get them attacked and the movement stopped. The bulk of muslims live in South & SE Asia. Much closer to the equator than the Arabs. The South & SE form of Islam is more moderate as the people here have to interact with different faiths. These people should have a louder voice as they have the numbers instead of the Arabs dominating the narrative. Things are changing as other countries become more prosperous and the Gulf more anxious about its wealth in the future.


    In my case the invaders came from the North & West. Arabs, Mongols & Euros. It would seem they were more into action.


    The moderate forms of jihad are about inner struggle. However that is not what the radicals believe. For them its about conquest. One group wants to live with the rest the other wants to subjugate it. They don't care if they are in the minority. They will resort to ethnic cleansing if necessary to even out the demographic.
    From our experience, the schools really don't make any difference. During the war in Bosnia we had both of them and they both behaved the same, so for us it is really irrelevant what they teach since the outcome is the same. That Iranian guy that was killed in Iraq, was also in Bosnia fighting against us just as well as Wahhabi taught Muslims. They beheaded and butchered the same.
    The issue with the Syria is that it is on a route for energy corridor and all this mess revolves around that. How to get gas, because oil days are gone, from the dying oilfields of the Middle East to Europe and thus prevent the domination of Russian gas and thus Russian influence.So on one side you have Russia backing up Iran,that has its own agenda and on the other side you have US/UK backing up the Wahhabi Muslims and their agenda. Also don't forget China's influence and its agenda to get to Europe via "New Silk road" and their backing up of Pakistan and Iran as well. So you have an proxy proxy proxy proxy war in Syria and that is why it will never end. It will be an permanent turmoil and bloodshed, from that side.
    At the end, the gas and oil will run out and that will lead to the weakening of the chains that are used to control them, both from Russia and the West. Problem is that even chained, both Russia and the West are feeding the Islam and making it stronger and stronger. All they have to do is to endure and than their time will come and when it comes, well..it will be like Serbia in 1813-1814, when the living envied the dead. Islam is a matriarchy and the womb controls it since the womb is the life itself, it will always prevail. The womb will send its minions, the so called "real men", the hyper masculine macho men to get the resources it needs and they will run, pillage, kill and burn everything in order to satisfy the womb's relentless need for more.

  10. #2935
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    I see the Turks are in.

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