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Thread: Syrian Civil War Developments

  1. #2836
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    so now POTUS has called for an immediate end to the Syria mission, undercutting his administration's own diplomatic/defense strategy, as stated -Monday-.

    remember when Obama got a bunch of crap for announcing the timeline for withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan? how about immediate withdrawal now? what a clown show.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #2837
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    remember when Obama got a bunch of crap for announcing the timeline for withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan? how about immediate withdrawal now? what a clown show.
    Trump stated America is out and done in three months because he feels we have ended ISIS territorial control over that corner of the world (and to avoid staying in that quagmire), not that "we are leaving in three months but please take part in peace talks with us in the meantime."

    What is left of ISIS can be mopped up by the other bad guys without America having to babysit the PKK and keep them safe from the Turkish government/Assad/Putin.
    Last edited by troung; 20 Dec 18, at 16:21.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  3. #2838
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Turks won't be complaining that's for sure.

  4. #2839
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    Trump stated America is out and done in three months because he feels we have ended ISIS territorial control over that corner of the world (and to avoid staying in that quagmire), not that "we are leaving in three months but please take part in peace talks with us in the meantime."
    his own special envoy, Brett McGurk, literally just said this week that immediate withdrawal wasn't going to happen and that it was a bad idea. glad to see foreign policy changes being done on the fly with no warning to even the rest of the USG.

    What is left of ISIS can be mopped up by the other bad guys without America having to babysit the PKK and keep them safe from the Turkish government/Assad/Putin.
    US own open-source intel estimates between 20-30K ISIS remaining in Syria/Iraq, with 15K still in Syria.

    i'm sure Turkish government/Assad/Putin will get right on that.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #2840
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    glad to see foreign policy changes being done on the fly with no warning to even the rest of the USG.
    That is the slightly troubling bit here. Though given how short the stay was i suppose this was more feasible to do.


    US own open-source intel estimates between 20-30K ISIS remaining in Syria/Iraq, with 15K still in Syria.

    i'm sure Turkish government/Assad/Putin will get right on that.
    Begs the question why he did it. Is there more to it

  6. #2841
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    his own special envoy, Brett McGurk, literally just said this week that immediate withdrawal wasn't going to happen and that it was a bad idea. glad to see foreign policy changes being done on the fly with no warning to even the rest of the USG.
    Trump ran on this very course of action as a key issue of his campaign, this isn't a surprise nor should it be.

    US own open-source intel estimates between 20-30K ISIS remaining in Syria/Iraq, with 15K still in Syria.
    There is a small pocket in Syria that the SDF/PKK is dragging their feet on to extract concessions from the USA over Turkey.

    i'm sure Turkish government/Assad/Putin will get right on that.
    Team Putin finished off a pocket last month.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  7. #2842
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    Trump ran on this very course of action as a key issue of his campaign, this isn't a surprise nor should it be.
    leaving Syria isn't a shocking course of action, it's immediately without any notice or thought about execution that is.

    great way to ruin the credibility of anyone charged with speaking/acting on your behalf, like McGurk.

    There is a small pocket in Syria that the SDF/PKK is dragging their feet on to extract concessions from the USA over Turkey.
    current force of 2,000 SOF is designed for stuff like this. this ain't 130,000 troops in Iraq doing occupation duty we're talking about here.

    Team Putin finished off a pocket last month.
    lol, better stop watchin' that RT before you start ordering Putin-on-horseback calendars...;-)

    the very fact that Putin is telling everyone what a great idea this withdrawal is....should be a good indicator that perhaps, just perhaps, this might not be the best course of action for the US.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #2843
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    DE,

    Begs the question why he did it. Is there more to it
    not really. troung is right that this is among one of the stupid things that Trump campaigned on. (although "key issue" is overstating it, as US troop levels in Syria is a big priority for precisely zero of the MAGA-crowd.)

    the question is the timing, and the immediacy of it. everything about this speaks to Trump impulsively getting tired of his advisers and generals and diplomats telling him that immediate withdrawal is a bad idea, and Trump deciding to show them who's boss.

    it's the same reason why Trump ignored Mattis when it came to picking a CJCS. there's no real reason for Trump to have rejected Mattis's recommendation....other than to show that Trump has the power to ignore his people's advice.
    Last edited by astralis; 20 Dec 18, at 19:08.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #2844
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    ‘Fox & Friends’ Trashes Trump Over Syrian Withdrawal: ‘Worse Than President Obama’

    The set of “Fox & Friends” spent a second day Thursday lacing into President Trump, with host Brian Kilmeade saying the president’s decision to pull U.S. forces out of Syria was worse than former president Barack Obama’s own foreign policy in the region.

    “What happened last time when President Obama pulled out troops out after Iraq? What happened? We had to fight our way in and reestablish,” Kilmeade said. “He is doing exactly, if not worse, than President Obama did,” adding that Trump’s decision to pull out was comparable to Obama’s ultimately empty statement that Syrian use of chemical weapons would be a “red line” for his administration.

    Trump made the announcement Wednesday, to the surprise of many, especially on Twitter. “We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency,” he said.

    Echoing the broad foreign policy consensus, Kilmeade said that a U.S. withdrawal from Syria would allow Russia and Iran to move into the region and present an untenable situation for our Kurdish allies. Also on hand was Fox News reporter Ed Henry, who did his best to provide counterpoint and pushed back on Kilmeade, noting how Trump had been tough on Iran in other ways.

    “But you’re assuming that we’re handing Syria to Iran without noting as well that this president stood up to Iran and pulled out of the nuclear deal,” Henry said. “President Obama was handing them cash. Is that a better idea?”

    “We’re doing the same thing,” Kilmeade shot back. “We are allowing them to reestablish themselves in a region.”

    It was the second day in a row the show offered a stern finger wag to the president. On Wednesday, Kilmeade along with co-host Steve Doocy and Ainsley Earhardt, criticized Trump over his decision to back down on a demand that Congress fund the border wall with Mexico.

    “What a stunning turn of events,” Doocy said. “If he agrees to the [continuing resolution] which would continue funding the government at the current levels … he loses and the Democrats will win everything they want.”
    ___________________

    Once again, the personal propaganda organ of the "President" is trashing him. On his favorite show, no less. And comparing him unfavorably to Obama ffs...

    In unrelated news, the commodities market saw a huge surge in popcorn futures
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  10. #2845
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    not really. troung is right that this is among one of the stupid things that Trump campaigned on. (although "key issue" is overstating it, as US troop levels in Syria is a big priority for precisely zero of the MAGA-crowd.)
    I don't know what the US was doing in Syria to start with. US is the only foreign actor that wasn't invited. Thinking at the time was the US got involved so as to have a say at the table whenever that happens. But it appears not to be the case if there is a pull out now.

    the question is the timing, and the immediacy of it. everything about this speaks to Trump impulsively getting tired of his advisers and generals and diplomats telling him that immediate withdrawal is a bad idea, and Trump deciding to show them who's boss.

    it's the same reason why Trump ignored Mattis when it came to picking a CJCS. there's no real reason for Trump to have rejected Mattis's recommendation....other than to show that Trump has the power to ignore his people's advice.
    Let's see if that bolded bit can withstand testing over time. As with almost everything we discuss here, things become more clear with time when more information comes out.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Dec 18, at 22:21.

  11. #2846
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    he very fact that Putin is telling everyone what a great idea this withdrawal is....should be a good indicator that perhaps, just perhaps, this might not be the best course of action for the US.
    The people in a blind rage over withdrawing troops who are not "preventing a warm water Russian port" or "containing Iran" and either can't tell the difference between "Kurds" or don't want to say "PKK" are a good crowd to be on the opposite side of. ISIS is effectively done in Syria as a territorial force (but for PKK dithering to keep the US there).

    current force of 2,000 SOF is designed for stuff like this. this ain't 130,000 troops in Iraq doing occupation duty we're talking about here.
    American troops are protecting a Marxist militia which sets off car bombs in Afrin Markets, films themselves murdering civilians they accuse of collaborating in Afirn, murders teachers in South East Turkey, represses the local Arab population, are facing a non-ISIS insurgency, and are about to deal with a major Turkish ground operation. Get while the going is good and easy.

    lol, better stop watchin' that RT before you start ordering Putin-on-horseback calendars...;-)
    I have my Erdo calendar
    https://www.thenational.ae/world/men...syria-1.792944
    Syrian regime forces on Saturday took back control of the last ISIS holdout in southern Syria after months of fighting, a war monitor said.
    Regime forces retook Tulul Al Safa, between the provinces of Damascus and Sweida, "after ISIS fighters withdrew from it and headed east into the Badia desert", the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
    Regime forces have been fighting the militants in the area since a deadly July attack on the Druze minority in Sweida province.
    In recent weeks, air strikes on the Tulul Al Safa pocket had increased and hundreds of regime fighters were sent as reinforcements, the Observatory said.
    The militants' withdrawal was likely "under a deal with the regime forces" after weeks of encirclement and air raids, Observatory chief Rami Abdel Rahman said.
    Last edited by troung; 20 Dec 18, at 23:44.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  12. #2847
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    The Kurds are allies; Trumpkin has betrayed them. Daesh is not finished; Trumpkin lied. Moscow, Iran and the other war criminal Assad are doubtless owners on new flats in some Trumpkin property.

  13. #2848
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Kurds are allies; Trumpkin has betrayed them. Daesh is not finished; Trumpkin lied. Moscow, Iran and the other war criminal Assad are doubtless owners on new flats in some Trumpkin property.
    Kurds are an ethnic group, the faction at issue is the PKK which is a terrorist group. There are Kurds under arms in the PKK, Kurds under arms in the Turkish security services, Kurds under arms in the FSA, Kurds in ISIS, Kurds under arms in the PUK, Kurds under arms in the KDP. The identity of the "Kurdish forces" in Syria that America has worked with is an issue that people going into rages since yesterday seem to either ignore or just be ignorant about. America had a pretty transnational relationship with them, clearly took steps to ensure we didn't provide advanced weapons lest TOWs be fired in south east Turkey at Turkish Gendarmerie. They have done their best to show that the American supported SDF rebrand was just for show, and for all intents and purposes the PKK is running that part of Syria.

    The PKK/YPG was smart enough to take advantage of the war against ISIS (who had clobbered them in the first place and were getting ready to finish Kobani off) and unlike the Syrian rebels was ready to ignore Assad and increase their territory at the expense of ISIS. By working with the USA the PKK/YPG got to expand their territory (and shit all over the local Arabs in the process); received protection from Turkey and company; get to run sham elections; got rescued from IS; were supplied with weapons, money, and ammo; and are now attacking civilian targets in Afrin and still sending fighters into Turkey while American troops are sent around to play meat shield to protect the Syrian branch terrorist organization. They got plenty out of the deal and America doesn't morally owe the PKK's.

    Assad and his team are capable of finishing off ISIS and may just expend money and lives in the process.
    Last edited by troung; 21 Dec 18, at 06:16.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  14. #2849
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The Kurds are allies; Trumpkin has betrayed them. Daesh is not finished; Trumpkin lied. Moscow, Iran and the other war criminal Assad are doubtless owners on new flats in some Trumpkin property.
    I was thinking maybe some deal with Turkey. Relations between the two have been improving ever so slightly since the Khashoggi affair

    Could be even simpler, nothing interesting left to do

    Daesh aims for a global caliphate, they have chapters in numerous places. People funding them are cosmopilitan and educated.

    Millenials choice of terrorist instead of dad's AQ
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Dec 18, at 04:11.

  15. #2850
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Kurds are an ethnic group, the faction at issue is the PKK which is a terrorist group. There are Kurds under arms in the PKK, Kurds under arms in the Turkish security services, Kurds under arms in the FSA, Kurds in ISIS, Kurds under arms in the PUK, Kurds under arms in the KDP. The identity of the "Kurdish forces" in Syria that America has worked with is an issue that people going into rages since yesterday seem to either ignore or just be ignorant about. America had a pretty transnational relationship with them, clearly took steps to ensure we didn't provide advanced weapons lest TOWs be fired in south east Turkey at Turkish Gendarmerie. They have done their best to show that the American supported SDF rebrand was just for show, and for all intents and purposes the PKK is running that part of Syria.

    Don't care if they are Wombles. They fought with you (again). Trumpkin is betraying US allies and that I do not think is wise.

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