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Thread: Syrian Civil War Developments

  1. #2371
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    no they won't. one-off bombing doesn't a foreign policy make. (although i DO like that it's one more nail in the coffin of any Trump-Putin bromance. and seeing the outraged tears on Breitbart and Milo-world is always fun to watch.)

    now if the administration suddenly brings up something like selling arms to Ukraine, then yeah, that'd make everyone (excepting the two groups I just mentioned) rather more comfortable.
    Heh, and as if by magic

    On Friday’s broadcast of MSNBC’s “The Last Word,” anchor Lawrence O’Donnell stated that “if Vladimir Putin masterminded the last week in Syria, he has gotten everything he could have asked for.” O’Donnell then floated a theory that Putin told Syria’s Bashar al-Assad to launch a small chemical attack that was big enough to attract media attention and prompt President Trump into launching a missile strike, which would then change the subject from Russian influence.
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  2. #2372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Reuters is reporting that fighters are operating from Shayrat airfield again, including further attacks on Khan Sheikhoun.
    It's probably the ones parked on the side of the runway that they didn't hit.

  3. #2373
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    I remember the good Col saying there is no point in hitting runways, since in 48 hours his buddies will pave a new one. He was also full of praise for his Russian peers abilities.
    Last edited by Doktor; 08 Apr 17, at 09:32.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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  4. #2374
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    An interesting and pertinent read from the CIA's reading room.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...00770001-5.pdf
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

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  5. #2375
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    pari,

    We're now guaranteed there's no opportunity for that to change
    that wasn't going to change, regardless. which other country is going to spend billions to prop up that guy?

    Have you not read Russia's response that they will be substantively improving Syria's air defence? IIRC, outside the hack the Israelis recently achieved, their top systems are more than capable of taking on anything you can shoot or fly at them.
    lol...no. how long do you think that will take-- delivery, sustainment, training, spares? moreover, talking about any one system is useless in this context. it's akin to going from walking across a room to walking across a room with a cobweb or two in the way. Syrian air defense is not exactly in the big leagues, nor will it ever be.

    You, as in America, has been in nearly constant war since 1945. This escalated post 9/11 massively. As a country you now assassinate on average between one and three foreign citizens a day, depending on whose numbers you believe. You regularly bomb Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Libya. As for your special forces well, http://www.commondreams.org/views/20.../year-commando
    The DC Establishment IS the war party.
    actually, America's been in near constant war since the early 1900s if bombing/gunboat diplomacy counts as "war". if that's the standard, there's little meaning to the term "war party", because even the most dovish Dems or libertarian Republicans won't back away from that. how long did it take for Mr America First to backtrack on this? hell, this wasn't even the first time; the Yemen raid was executed how many days into his Presidency?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Have you not read Russia's response that they will be substantively improving Syria's air defence? IIRC, outside the hack the Israelis recently achieved, their top systems are more than capable of taking on anything you can shoot or fly at them.
    What? More S-400s?

  7. #2377
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    What? More S-400s?

    Let me help.
    Each is coloured blue, which means it's a link to full details.
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  8. #2378
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    Yes I know what they are but they had S-300s, S-400s and Pantsirs around Latakia and Tartus and either chose not to use them or failed to do for some reason, even though alerted of the incoming strike. If they chose not use their systems it has several possible implications; if they failed it has other implications and we need to know which is true.

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    The strike supposedly went across the hills of Lebanon, considerably outside the range of the systems at Latakia and Tartus (which pretty much cover the coast from the Lebanese to the Turkish border).

  10. #2380
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The strike supposedly went across the hills of Lebanon, considerably outside the range of the systems at Latakia and Tartus (which pretty much cover the coast from the Lebanese to the Turkish border).
    Well they do not 'point' in any one direction. The range of an S-400 is upto 400km and the entire length of the Lebanese coast around 230km. What gives? Hills a problems? Chose not to use them? It is important to know.

  11. #2381
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Well they do not 'point' in any one direction. The range of an S-400 is upto 400km and the entire length of the Lebanese coast around 230km. What gives? Hills a problems? Chose not to use them? It is important to know.
    What, all of the peeps here saying it's a futile exercise to use them is not enough for you?

    A) They didn't want to give ELINT over few dozen hits on Syrian targets. They were never at jeopardy.
    B) They'd get oversaturated (they only can shot down few missiles before running out of ammo)
    C) Why raising the stakes?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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  12. #2382
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    BTW, any news on that rendezvous near Cyprus?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  13. #2383
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Well they do not 'point' in any one direction. The range of an S-400 is upto 400km and the entire length of the Lebanese coast around 230km. What gives? Hills a problems? Chose not to use them? It is important to know.
    It's radar is 400km, it's effective range against subsonic ground hogging cruise missiles is effectively 40. It's also like using a baseball bat to swatting a fly. The pantsirs are also too much club simply for cruise missile interception. The S400s were deployed after the Turks shot down a Russian fighter (border control) and the Pantsirs were there to threaten American aircraft after the US started talking about direct strikes on Syrian forces (internal to Syria).
    The Russians have any number of highly mobile cruise missile interception systems which they can deploy, and which Medvedev has said they will.
    Meanwhile US flights over Syrian airspace have dropped from twenty or more per day to single digits, all outside the effective range of the Russian systems.
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  14. #2384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    What, all of the peeps here saying it's a futile exercise to use them is not enough for you?

    A) They didn't want to give ELINT over few dozen hits on Syrian targets. They were never at jeopardy.
    B) They'd get oversaturated (they only can shot down few missiles before running out of ammo)
    C) Why raising the stakes?
    Well if there are deficiencies in their systems it matters. If they chose not to use them - or perhaps agreed in advance not to use them - it has other obvious implications. If as Pari says the number of flights on targets in Syria is substantially decreased, no runways were hit, hardly any perceptible damage done, then the implication is that the whole thing was pantomime, and the subsequent Muscovite 'anger' a feigned facade. Forget that the whole Trump administration is under investigation for collusion to pervert the election; watch some fireworks.

    No Pari you are wrong on the range issue. The S-400 can use several types of missiles and the furthest range is 400km though I am told it does have trouble with low altitude targets - particularly over the Lebanese hills possibly as kato suggests.
    Last edited by snapper; 09 Apr 17, at 00:11.

  15. #2385
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    No Pari you are wrong on the range issue. The S-400 can use several types of missiles and the furthest range is 400km though I am told it does have trouble with low altitude targets - particularly over the Lebanese hills possibly as kato suggests.
    Well no I'm not wrong, against cruise missiles it has an effective range of 40km. Because they fly low. Against ICBM's, F22's and whatever incredibly expensive toys the US or whoever wish to fly at high altitudes, they have a far greater range.
    If you wish to take out American cruise missiles then I'd expect them to deploy the cheap and simple Tunguska.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

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