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Thread: My first rifle purchase - Grizzly Bear Defence in mind - SKS?

  1. #31
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    Ever consider the good old Elephant gun used by colonialists in Africa and India, I'm sure it would stop a bear.

    I wonder if playing CDs of a particular Canadian lady singer would have a better effect on the bears...
    Last edited by lemontree; 12 Jul 12, at 05:56.

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  2. #32
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    Ever consider the good old Elephant gun used by colonialists in Africa and India, I'm sure it would stop a bear.

    I wonder if playing CDs of a particular Canadian lady singer would have a better effect on the bears...
    If we could put a boom box around the neck of every grizzly in Canada and have them play her "best hits" O&E would "silenced" all of them within the first week. I'd almost feel sorry for those bears.

  3. #33
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    Actually, I would be laughing my ass off watching you trying to hang a boom box around a grizzly's neck.

  4. #34
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    LT & Bonehead,

    If I may ask what have Grizzlies done so bad to be subjects to such a terror?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    LT & Bonehead,

    If I may ask what have Grizzlies done so bad to be subjects to such a terror?
    I just thought that using local resources is the best and most economical way of solving a problem.
    But I think the elephant gun would be a better solution.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  6. #36
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    My Stepbrother is really into elephant guns, he inherited a couple from his Dad, and loves to shoot them. He even wrote a book about hunting dinosaurs - obviously fictional on the part of the quarry, but it is quite serious about these big shoulder cannons and their comparative abilities. One thing that impressed me was how expensive they are and their ammo is equally dear (I saw some that were over 20$ a round). I am sure an elephant gun would drop a grizzy just fine, but it would hardly fulfill our friend's financial constraints. Stephen Templar's book is quite instructional about what gives a projectile the ability to knock down a large dangerous animal - he did a lot of research and talked to many experts and ammunition manufacturers. It appears that a carefully designed flat end called a meplat on a solid bullet makes a big difference. Some modern ammunition takes advantage of this effect, in particular some Barnes sabot slugs use this technology.
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  7. #37
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    I fired a .458 Winchester Magnum exactly once. There was nothing pleasant about it. I know they are cool, just not very practical.

    The ballsy 19th century ivory hunters used two-barrel 4-bore smoothbore guns throwing a one inch hardened lead ball. Two shots, you are done. If the tusker is alive and pissed, you are in a lot of trouble.

    Of course the weapon of choice for today's ivory poachers is the AK-47. They simply hose the elephant down. Apparently it works, so maybe the original idea of an SKS is not that bad.

  8. #38
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    I fired a .458 Winchester Magnum exactly once. There was nothing pleasant about it. I know they are cool, just not very practical.

    The ballsy 19th century ivory hunters used two-barrel 4-bore smoothbore guns throwing a one inch hardened lead ball. Two shots, you are done. If the tusker is alive and pissed, you are in a lot of trouble.

    Of course the weapon of choice for today's ivory poachers is the AK-47. They simply hose the elephant down. Apparently it works, so maybe the original idea of an SKS is not that bad.
    They usually have a couple of poachers hosing the tusker and occasionally one of them doesn't make it.
    They also have to wait a while while it dies.

    My brother mentioned that a couple rounds from his .416 Rigby or .500 nitro takes weeks to recover from.
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 13 Jul 12, at 16:00.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Of course the weapon of choice for today's ivory poachers is the AK-47. They simply hose the elephant down. Apparently it works, so maybe the original idea of an SKS is not that bad.
    They shoot the elephant from behind or at the very least not in direct line of sight. An AK-47 will kill an elephant but not before it charges. You have to be damned sure you're not in the line of charge.

    As Whiskie pointed out, some poachers are too stupid to realize this.

  10. #40
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    I think I would enjoy seeing a pissed off elephant dancing on a poacher with an AK...

  11. #41
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    You want something large in calibre that can fire lots of heavy rounds in a short space of time to stop charging dangerous game. High velocity rounds like you'd be firing from an SKS are likely to pass through the animal at close range and don't transfer all their energy, so they aren't as good. That makes the 12 gauge pump or even a semi-auto, perfect.

    Be aware that shotguns with slugs kick like a mule, so you'll need to practice quite a bit to get used to firing off quick, controlled shots. That is going to be reletively expensive as slugs are the most expensive type of round, but I figure if you invest for say 50 for range practice you should be right. 2 3/4 inch cartridges will be adequate and don't kick as much as 3 inchers. Also, get a gun with a good recoil pad or get one fitted. Remember to get a gun with interchangeable chokes for versatility and to only use your slugs on lite chokes like cylinder, skeet or improved cylinder - but if you do get a fixed choke gun make sure it is in one of these chokes. I'd take rifled slugs and a smooth barrel over sabot slugs and a rifled barrel as the latter are smaller and faster, so they aren't going to have the same close- range hitting power. As I understand it the semi-autos kick a little less as they use some of the gasses or recoil to re-cock the gun ... I believe Remington produced an excellent semi-auto which is discussed on a thread about shotguns on this board, but I'd be careful about getting a new Remington at the moment as they have reports of quality issues. You don't want your gun to fail in the face of a grizzly!

    If you have your heart set on a rifle I'd be looking at a high calibre lever, something like a .45-70 or a .444 Marlin, though again you need to be sure that you can handle it because they kick like a horse. Also be aware that they are loud, so if you have to use them in an emergency when you don't have hearing protection get used to the idea that your ears are going to be ringing for hours afterwards, especially if they have a ported barrel, as they are loud. Really, if you are going to get one of those you need to have some practice on something smaller first so get a .22 as well. Personally I think the shotgun is the better option though, if you can only have one gun a shotgun is the most versitile with it's range limitations (and the most fun on the Sporting Clay range!).
    Last edited by Aussiegunner; 23 Aug 12, at 04:30.
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  12. #42
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    In the USA, at least, a rifled 12 bore gun would be considered a DD (destructive device) and would be classed the same as a Bofors cannon or a hand grenade. It could be owned, but you'd have to pay a $200 tax and have a background check, like civilian machine gun ownership.

    Such a gun (rifled 12 bore with a big slug) would be very potent on large game. But since rifling above 1/2 inch (.50 cal) is a DD, they are uncommon.

    There is a company called Anzio Iron Works in the USA that sells a shoulder fired "rifle" chambered for the 20mm Vulcan cannon shell.

    Attachment 29868

    Perfect for rampaging T-rex, alien monsters, or terrorists riding in armored vehicles immune to the .50 BMG.

    These wonderful folk have also developed a cartridge that skates on the USA destructive device characterization by necking down the 20mm Vulcan to .50 caliber. Now you've got a .50 BMG bullet sailing along at 3600 fps! I'd guess with a tungsten (or even DU penetrator) core that such a bullet would take the WW1 and 2 concept of the man-portable AT rifle to new heights.

    Attachment 29869

  13. #43
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  14. #44
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    I think you'll find if you look into it Chogy, rifled 12 gauges are still classed as shotguns in the US and are subject to no special regulation. Companies like Remington and Winchester certainly sell sabot ammo for them as a matter of course.
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  15. #45
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    Using the thread; though dormant; to post this news.

    Indian-Origin Hiker Snapped Photos of Bear That Killed Him

    Attachment 38612

    Patel had been hiking with four others when they met a man and a woman at the preserve's entrance who told them a bear was on the loose and advised the five friends to turn around, authorities said.

    But the group went on, and Patel took photos from a distance of about 100 feet.

    They should have listened to the couple. Wrong decision.

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