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Thread: My first rifle purchase - Grizzly Bear Defence in mind - SKS?

  1. #16
    Contributor cadpipe's Avatar
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    shotgun yes

    an SKS might be the bear minimum, When I visited AK, I carried a .357 with soft point, partial jacket, but I was not going to be out and about that much, and it was all I had on short notice. My druthers would have been a benelli auto with magnum 3" slugs, 5" or smaller groups at 100 yards, sitting. I figure that if you have to shoot a grizz you empty the gun, they are bad ass! And you can shoot birds with shot shells, snakes, pushy denali sheep, zombie sea otters, you could even shoot an Elk if he tries to get your Elkyhol. I vote 12 ga of some sort, very versitile.
    Last edited by cadpipe; 08 Jul 12, at 02:42. Reason: left out a space
    CADPIPE

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxor View Post
    I'm not going to flat out disagree with everyone here and say that I wouldn't appreciate a little more gun if facing a moose or a grizzly, but a 7.62 x 39 round will seriously mess up a bear. You aren't going to get many one shot instant kills but 3 or 4 rounds center mass will stagger it (and would long term kill it) and let you get a head shot which will put it down. People go blackbear hunting with pistols in .22LR, (though its not real common). As long as it can reliably penetrate the animals hide (and an sks can do that) it can serve as a defense rifle.... Would a shoulder cannon be preferable sure but he is on a budget and will be carrying the run in addition to other gear so its not a horrid choice.
    Well, the problem is will you run out of ammo before the bear runs out of steam?

    From What type of shotgun would be best for protection from grizzly bears? - Yahoo! Answers

    I am a long time Alaskan hunter, brown bear hunter, and professional Alaskan bear photographer. I lived on Kodiak Island for many years and have lots of experience with these guys.

    If you can find a copy - look for a video called 'Take a Closer Look'. It is a neat brown bear video identification guide that will teach you how to recognize brown bears. This is handy since a three year old has really big ears, and, a trophy 10 footer will have tiny ears compaired to the size of the head. Knowing the difference means you can scare away the young one - won't work with the older one. Video is worth it's weight in gold for understand bear body language.

    12 ga with sabot slugs will put down a brown bear just as good as any rifle at close range - however - do not count on your first shot sending it to heaven. You need to break bones and hit vital organs to stop them - they are built very strong and powerful and can recover from a lethal shot for several minutes. One swipe and your life is ruined. Rule of thumb when bear hunting or protecting yourself from a bear is to keep shooting until it stops moving.

    You cannot bring your retractable shotgun to Canada - these are classifed as assault weapons. Only certain shotguns are allowed. When you cross the boarder be sure t have a nice pretty vent rib barrel used for skeet or bird hunting. When it is time to hike - put on the smaller yet still legal barrel.

    Your first two or three round coming out of the 12ga should all be sabots. After that OO Buck. Reason being if a bear is charging you, or, you have to shoot it off a buddy - with a sabot you have a good chance of being somewhat accurate. And after your 3rd sabot is expended you will be in 'panic fire mode' and the OO Buck should get you more hits.

    Don't cheap out and just buy a box of each and hope for the best. You won't do anyone any good unless you practice with the sabot and OO Buck. Standard shotgun qualification course for the military is 40 rounds............ so at least do this.

    What ever you do - do not tell 'em at the border you have the shotgun for bear protection. Right now they don't let anyone in with Bear Spray for fear someone might accidentally spray another person in the woods thinking they might be a bear. Gimme a break!

    The Canadian government has a web site set up just for folks visiting with firearms. Be sure to read up on the latest and greatest. I do know for sure you cannot have a shotgun with a pistol grip, colapsing stock, or a heat shield.

    Hope this helps!

  3. #18
    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Well, the problem is will you run out of ammo before the bear runs out of steam?
    Your a Canadian. You should know better.

    Ego Numquam

  4. #19
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    I think after my exam that I passed today I will go and see if I can get a 12G pumpy. He pointed out that in a defence situation you don't need the range and having the extra range can hurt someone else with the bullet going a long way or the bear being in the group of people.

    Now to see about finding one.

    Which one should I go after that will not break the bank or the fiances patience?


    I can go after the rifle I actually want at a later date. I really want an M1 Garrand so the shotgun will do for now.



    Now that we have that figured out lets hear Garrand and shotgun advice.


    I read someone here said sabot rounds?


    Also can I cross the Alaskan border with a shotgun?
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

  5. #20
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    Le Baron Fall/Winter Supplement On-line

    Scroll down to firearms. This is a Canadian company.

  6. #21
    Canadian again at last! Military Professional
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    Know anything in Edmonton?
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

  7. #22
    Canadian again at last! Military Professional
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    Thinking something like this.

    Cabelas Canada - Firearms-Reloading - Shotguns - Pump Action Shotguns - Mossberg 500 12-Gauge Field Pump Shotgun


    Thoughts, opinions?

    This is about my price range too.
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

  8. #23
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repatriated Canuck View Post
    Thinking something like this.

    Cabelas Canada - Firearms-Reloading - Shotguns - Pump Action Shotguns - Mossberg 500 12-Gauge Field Pump Shotgun


    Thoughts, opinions?

    This is about my price range too.
    I like the vendor and the manufacturer. it can take a shorter barrel. I have one - very good gun, and probably adequate for the job. They make Barnes solid sabot slugs that could probably handle a bear, though avoiding it would be the safest thing.
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 10 Jul 12, at 11:07.
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  9. #24
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Shotgun for Grizzlies? Hmm...
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repatriated Canuck View Post
    Thinking something like this.

    Cabelas Canada - Firearms-Reloading - Shotguns - Pump Action Shotguns - Mossberg 500 12-Gauge Field Pump Shotgun


    Thoughts, opinions?

    This is about my price range too.
    Mossberg is not fancy but it is a good solid choice. Just make sure the choke combinations will allow you to shoot all the things you have in mind. You might want to get a composite stock though. Wood takes a beating in the north.

  11. #26
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    I would get some cheap ammo to get familiar with the gun, cycling the action, getting off a magazine full in hurry and hitting the target, getting good at it - a couple boxes minimum (50 rds, 75 better) - then waste about 5 of the special solid sabot rounds to get familiar with those (the recoil and ballistics will be different - harsher). I'd want at least 5 of the solids with the gun when it was being used in the woods, plus a full box (25 rds) of the other loads (a mixture of regular slugs, buckshot and bb) for lesser threats. You would want to feel confident of hitting things a few times in a row at 25 meters.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  12. #27
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Shotgun for Grizzlies? Hmm...
    Shotgun firing slugs for grizzlies.

    The good thing about shotgun is the versatility. It can take anything from bird shots to buck shots to solid slugs to sabot slugs, and I've even seen one that mimics a flamethrower. Another type of popular defense ammo is discs. A bunch of metal discs, 12ga in diameter, stacked on top of one another, loaded in a single shot shell. They probably scatter like hell and are wildly inaccurate. Think of it as modern day blunderbuss.

    As far as brand and model goes, I heard many good thing about Remington 870. The model has been around for decades and there are spare parts galore. I personally have a Winchester 1300 Defender as my mandatory pump. It works. But it just doesn't seem to have as many after market parts as the 870.

    The 3 most popular pump guns on the American market are Remington 870, Winchester 1300, and Mossberg 500. I've shot a Mossberg. I wasn't too impressed. It felt heavier than the other 2 models. Remington is the smoothest. Straight up, I would trade my Winchester 1300 for a Remington 870.

    Another possibility is Benelli Nova. I have never tried one so I can't comment. But it's something to consider.
    Last edited by gunnut; 10 Jul 12, at 18:31.
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  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Gunnut,

    I like the idea of having one rifle and a bag of different ammo for different targets, but having a grizzly in range of a shotgun is not a situation I'd like to be for the reasons you already wrote (accuracy, scattering...)
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #29
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Gunnut,

    I like the idea of having one rifle and a bag of different ammo for different targets, but having a grizzly in range of a shotgun is not a situation I'd like to be for the reasons you already wrote (accuracy, scattering...)
    You won't have problems with a single slug scattering. You will have scattering with a sabot round, but that's just because the sabot is discarded on purpose.

    Trust me, I'd rather have a 12ga pump with slugs or sabots than an SKS or AR when I need to take down a big bear. I'm not even sure if I would pick my Garand over a 12ga slug when a bear is involved.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  15. #30
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    For reference:
    I just bought my first shotgun. I bought a cheap Stevens 320 12G for $199. Yep, $199 new. I signed up for a shotgun clinic and had some fun.
    A few points, you can get a quality weapon for a cheap price. I received a lot of positive comments from people who spent several hundred dollars more on their weapons.
    I was a top scorer during the shoots we did.
    Every semi-auto shotgun jammed.
    Learning the capabilities and limitations of your weapon is paramount.
    I have not made any mods to my shotgun yet, I did the clinic with only a shotgun shell holder on it.

    For close to mid range, I think the shotgun has been underestimated.

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