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  • Problems of 'PIRACY' in China.

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...tos-174235.htm

    Honda sues Chinese motorcycle maker for logo piracy


    By Elaine Kurtenbach / AP Business Writer


    SHANGHAI, China -- Honda Motor Co. is suing China’s biggest private motorcycle maker, accusing it of pirating the Japanese company’s logo, a Shanghai court said Friday.

    Honda is demanding more than 17 million yuan ($2 million) in compensation and legal fees from Chongqing Lifan Industry Group Co., which is based in the southern municipality of Chongqing, the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported.

    It alleges that the “SOR” logo used by Lifan on its motorcycles looks too similar to an “SCR” logo registered by Honda as its trademark in 1999, Xinhua said in a report on its Web site.

    Officials at the Shanghai No. 2 Intermediate People’s Court contacted Friday confirmed the case was being heard there, but would not comment further.

    Honda’s headquarters in Tokyo refused to comment while the trial was still underway, as did staff at Lifan’s offices in Chongqing.

    The case comes as foreign automakers and other multinationals intensify their fight against patent and copyright infringements that they say are costing them billions of dollars in lost sales both inside and outside China.

    The Xinhua report said that during a court hearing on Thursday, Honda presented as evidence two motor scooters made by Lifan and bought in Shanghai, both emblazoned with “SOR” logos in the same place that Honda puts its “SCR” logos.

    Lifan denies copying Honda’s logo or products, the report said.

    Another case between Honda and Lifan is pending in Beijing’s No. 2 Intermediate People’s Court. In that case, Honda said Lifan used the name “Hongda” on its products -- a name the Japanese automaker contends is too similar to its own. It is asking for more than 25 million yuan ($3 million) in compensation.

    Other big automakers have also begun pursuing alleged infringements.

    General Motors Corp. of the United States is investigating similarities between its GM Spark vehicle and the QQ mini-car produced by China’s SAIC-Chery Automobile Co., while Toyota Motor Co.p. is suing Chinese car maker Geely, accusing it of trademark piracy.

    Despite its qualms over piracy issues, Honda has been boosting investment in China hoping to strengthen its 10 percent share in the highly competitive motorcycle market, which is forecast to turn out 12 million units this year.

    Honda began making motorcycles in China in 1982. But like other Japanese motorcycle makers it has ceded much of the fast-growing market here and in Southeast Asia to a flood of Chinese competitors.

    Chongqing Lifan, set up in 1992 by entrepreneur and former college professor Yin Mingshan, began exporting motorcycles to Japan in 2001 and holds a large share of the market in Vietnam. The company has also branched into home appliances, wine making, security doors and financial services. It also owns a soccer team, the Lifan Football Club.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_401235.htm

    GM charges Chery for alleged mini car piracy
    By Gong Zhengzheng (China Daily)
    Updated: 2004-12-18 00:37


    US auto giant General Motors (GM) filed a lawsuit against China's Chery Automobile Co for alleged piracy of a mini car developed by its South Korean affiliate Daewoo.

    The lawsuit, launched in the name of GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co Ltd, contends Chery's QQ copied the design of Daewoo's Matiz while Chery claims it developed the QQ on its own.

    GM's investigation results showed the two vehicles "shared remarkably identical body structure, exterior design, interior design and key components," GM China Group said in a statement on Thursday night.

    GM's joint venture with Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp (SAIC) and Wuling Motor Corp in the southern Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region began producing the Matiz under licence from Daewoo as the Chevrolet Spark at the end of last year.

    Chery, a State-owned car producer formed in eastern Anhui Province, began making the QQ in 2002.

    "The Chinese Government advised GM to resolve the issue through mediation or legal means," Ken Wong, general counsel of GM Daewoo, said in the statement.

    "Despite our good faith efforts and the assistance of the Chinese Government in the past year, Chery has been non-responsive to mediation efforts, and has even stepped up efforts to export the vehicle to other markets," Wong said.

    Chery's alleged infringement has also been impacting the 4,300 employees of the GM joint venture and nearly 100 dealers for their Spark model in China, said Tim Stratford, general counsel of GM China Group.

    GM China Group said some 8,000 Sparks have been sold in China.

    Sales of the QQ are much higher than that of the Spark because of its earlier launch and lower prices, but the Chery official declined to reveal specific figures.

    However, an official from Chery defended the company's practice on Friday, saying: "We conduct product designs according to international rules."

    "Chery is one of the key State-backed automakers with depends on itself for self development," the official told China Daily.

    The GM lawsuit came after officials from the State Intellectual Property Office announced in September that Chery's alleged infringement does not exist according to evidence provided by GM, despite the QQ's similar appearance with the Spark.

    Japan's Honda Motor sued Shuanghuan Automobile in northern Hebei Province for infringement starting in October.

    Honda accused Shuanghuan's Laibao SRV of copying its CR-V sport utility vehicle, requiring a compensation of 100 million yuan (US$12.1 million).

    The Japanese automaker began making the CR-V in April at its joint venture with Dongfeng Motor Corp in central Hubei Province.

    Toyota Motor Corp filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against Geely, the privately-owned compact car maker in eastern Zhejiang Province last year, but lost the case.

    Analysts say more intellectual property disputes between domestic and foreign automakers will emerge as a result of Chinese firms' lack of strong development capabilities and the more profitable car market in China than in developed nations.

    "Chinese automakers must enhance their independent development capabilities, instead of copying others. Otherwise, we will lag further behind foreign rivals," Jia Xinguang with the China Automotive Industry Consulting and Development Corp, said in an interview with China Daily.

    Around 90 per cent of China's passenger car market is controlled by foreign brands.

    Sales of China-made vehicles are forecast to exceed 5 million units this year, up from 4.4 million units last year.
    Attached Files
    Hala Madrid!!

  • #2
    indian auto industry is more stringent!
    What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
    The ones in the casinos are serious.

    Comment


    • #3
      Illegal Jeeps

      "Chrysler's concerns were amplified when Chrysler CEO Robert Eton was made aware that knock-offs of Chrysler's Jeep Cherokee had been seen on the streets of Beijing. When complaining about this to Chinese officials, he reportedly was told that this (the ability to copy Chrysler's Jeep Cherokee) was a good sign of progress in China's auto industry, about which he should be pleased. Apparently, he was not, and Chrysler soon canceled plans to go ahead with the Shanghai plant," states the report.

      Illegal Audis

      The failed Chrysler deal is not the only example. Audi, the German car maker, also had a sweet deal with China to manufacture its very popular 5000 sedan during the 1990s. However, once the terms of the deal expired, Audi was hustled out of China.


      Suddenly, the same Beijing car maker began producing the "Red Flag" sedan. The Red Flag was identical to the Audi 5000 right down to the last nut and bolt - with the single exception of a plastic red-flag hood ornament

      Illegal Ak 47

      China's ability to copy products and sell them illegally on the open market is not limited to commercial manufacturing. China currently sells copies of the Russian made AK-47 rifle on the open market. China has sold nearly a million such rifles around the world without making a single payment to Mikhail Kalashnikov, the designer of the AK rifle.
      What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
      The ones in the casinos are serious.

      Comment


      • #4
        In addition, the Chrysler deal with Beijing had a further twist that sent it over the edge. The Chinese Army interest in advanced vehicle manufacturing technology from Chrysler was a special indication of the reality of doing business with Beijing.


        "Chinese officials were demanding more advanced technology than seemed appropriate or necessary to Chrysler," concluded the Commerce report.


        Chrysler was at that time the maker of the U.S. Army M-1 tank.

        Chrysler officials quickly realized the advanced assembly and manufacturing technology demanded by the Chinese was far more applicable to making armored vehicles such as the U.S. Army M-1 tank than vans for soccer moms.
        What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
        The ones in the casinos are serious.

        Comment


        • #5
          Chery did that before China had the law to protect the body design. Neither GM nor DAWOO applied IP for this design in China even today.

          QQ is selling 10 times better than GM due to its higher quality and a public race competition between SPARK and QQ. SPARK failed several times in the race. QQ also porformed better in the official collosion tests than SPARK. So that's not a simple copy.

          Chinese market is the third largest auto market in the world and is very open. SAPRK could be a failed biz case. But GM has a big plant in Shanghai and is doing good biz in China. Its large part of profit comes from China market. VW is the same thing. in 2003, 70% of VW's profit came from China.

          Chery won this case because it could not be judged by the China's current law.

          Chery will export cars to US in 2007 with the help of the dealer who is importing SUBARU to US ( I cannot remeber the company's name). This dealer is confident in Chery's quality too. But Chery maybe forced to change its name in the US market.
          Last edited by oneman28; 12 Jun 05,, 11:10.

          Comment


          • #6
            Chrysler has a jeep plant in Beijing but the sales fall quickly in recent years due to its poor quality and high gas comsumption and high competetion. I think this is the oldest joint auto plant in China and has about 20 years of history.
            http://www.beijing-jeep.com/eindex.html


            I doubt it had a plant plan in Shanghai because its sales cannot support it.


            Audi is still making cars in the company that makes Red Flag.
            http://www.audiworld.com/news/03/080303/content.shtml
            The one of Red Flag models audi complained used the engine from Chrysler as I know. This happened in 1990s. Audi did not find solid proof to sue its partner.


            AK 47 was designed by USSR long time ago(1970s?), at that time, both USSR and China did not have laws to protect IP and designs. and also AK 47 is being made by many east europen countries.

            Same happened in Vitamin C production. Many companies in the western world are using the same tech to reduce the cost dramatically that was designed by a Chinese institute. But it was not protected by Chinese Law.

            Xuan paper is a kind of expensive and popular paper used extensively in caligraphy. Its tech was stolen from China by Japanese in 1970s. It is also not protected.

            Microsoft did the same thing. Chinese gov invested a lot in Chinese input technology in a institute, but M$ recruited the all the employees from the institute by higher salary in 1990s and stole the tech. It was combined into Windows since Windows NT. It is not protected either.
            Last edited by oneman28; 12 Jun 05,, 12:15.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by oneman28
              But GM has a big plant in Shanghai and is doing good biz in China. Its large part of profit comes from China market. VW is the same thing. in 2003, 70% of VW's profit came from China.
              Don't think thats correct. Both companies china operation don't contribute so much in revenue. Any link
              Hala Madrid!!

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...03/207176.html

                Another nasty surprise is in China, which until recently accounted for up to 24% of VW's operating profit. In late May, General Motors Corp. , keen to dethrone VW as China's market leader, cut prices by 11%. VW matched the move. GM's sales doubled in the first half of 2004, while VW's fell 4.2%. VW commanded half the mainland market in 1999; now it controls just over a quarter. Pischetsrieder now expects China sales to grow only 5% to 7% in 2004, down from over 30% in recent years.
                Well china contributes 24% & falling for VW.
                Hala Madrid!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders...C01-147640.htm

                  Pressure rises as GM attempts to regain market share in China


                  By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News


                  In the past couple of years, China was the bright spot on General Motors Corp.'s map, contributing more than $400 million to its annual profit in 2003 and 2004.

                  But this year, just when GM urgently needs those profits, its China operations seem unlikely to deliver.

                  In the first two months of the year, sales of Shanghai-GM -- GM's venture with Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. -- slumped 55 percent, knocking GM to seventh place in the volatile Chinese car market from second in 2004 after Volkswagen AG.

                  VW, which has partnerships with both Shanghai Automotive and First Automotive Works, suffered a 32 percent sales drop, as aggressive newcomers nibbled at the longtime players' share of the market.

                  Shanghai Automotive derives most of its income from those ventures and is now warning investors that its first-quarter profit might be down more than 50 percent from last year's level.

                  When GM China's longtime chairman, Phil Murtaugh, resigned unexpectedly last month, some analysts said GM might have been unhappy with the operation's shrinking profits.

                  But some local industry experts say Murtaugh may have felt crowded by GM Asia Pacific managers after the company transferred its regional headquarters to Shanghai from Singapore.

                  Auto analysts caution that the first-quarter results do not necessarily portend the trends for the year as a whole.

                  GM China spokeswoman Daphne Zheng attributes part of the recent decline to the phase-out late last year of the Buick Sail compact. It accounted for nearly a fifth of Shanghai GM's sales, and the new Chevrolet Sail did not go on sale until late February.

                  GM China will roll out 10 new or upgraded models this year and expects to end 2005 with a double-digit sales gain.

                  But rivals are just as active -- and that means competition and price pressures in China will keep mounting.

                  Investment firm Deutsche Bank estimates 40 new models will be launched in China this year -- up from 20 in 2004 -- and 16 of them will be introduced in high-volume segments. It expects car prices will continue to fall.

                  Meanwhile, demand is stagnant, reflecting the government's crackdown on credit, rising gas prices and a new fuel tax.

                  It's a different environment from the heady boom of the past two years, when just about every automaker with the foresight to set up production in China came out a winner. Confident Chinese consumers were snapping up cars as fast as automakers could churn them out.

                  China's car market is still expected to grow, but it is now taking on the characteristics of most other competitive auto markets, with winners and losers.

                  So far this year, South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. have performed remarkably. Beijing Hyundai vaulted into second place after establishing a reputation for selling cars whose quality was similar to that of GM vehicles, but cost less, local analysts say.

                  "The Asians are doing well in China for much the same reasons they're doing well in many parts of the world," says Mike Hanley, global director of automotive at consulting firm Ernst and Young. That's an unwelcome prospect for the established players in China.
                  Not a happy position for GM either.
                  Hala Madrid!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oneman28
                    Chrysler has a jeep plant in Beijing but the sales fall quickly in recent years due to its poor quality and high gas comsumption and high competetion. I think this is the oldest joint auto plant in China and has about 20 years of history.
                    http://www.beijing-jeep.com/eindex.html


                    I doubt it had a plant plan in Shanghai because its sales cannot support it.


                    Audi is still making cars in the company that makes Red Flag.
                    http://www.audiworld.com/news/03/080303/content.shtml
                    The one of Red Flag models audi complained used the engine from Chrysler as I know. This happened in 1990s. Audi did not find solid proof to sue its partner.


                    AK 47 was designed by USSR long time ago(1970s?), at that time, both USSR and China did not have laws to protect IP and designs. and also AK 47 is being made by many east europen countries.

                    Same happened in Vitamin C production. Many companies in the western world are using the same tech to reduce the cost dramatically that was designed by a Chinese institute. But it was not protected by Chinese Law.

                    Xuan paper is a kind of expensive and popular paper used extensively in caligraphy. Its tech was stolen from China by Japanese in 1970s. It is also not protected.

                    Microsoft did the same thing. Chinese gov invested a lot in Chinese input technology in a institute, but M$ recruited the all the employees from the institute by higher salary in 1990s and stole the tech. It was combined into Windows since Windows NT. It is not protected either.

                    Oneman, ur reply is full of damn excuse & not supported by hard facts.
                    Hala Madrid!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oneman
                      QQ is selling 10 times better than GM due to its higher quality and a public race competition between SPARK and QQ. SPARK failed several times in the race. QQ also porformed better in the official collosion tests than SPARK. So that's not a simple copy.
                      Any links
                      Hala Madrid!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://www.gs.com/hkchina/insight/re...w_in_china.pdf
                        Open your eyes. China contributed 80% of profit to VW in 1H2003.

                        VW is losing market shar ein China due to its old model and the comptetion from domestic and international makers.

                        GM almost made no profit in the world . But CHina contributed more than $400 million profit in 2003 and 2004 respectively.
                        http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders...C01-147640.htm

                        THis year is special due to the gov tried to cool down the economy and tightened auto loans.


                        China setup the IP laws for the body design couple years ago. Chery is a company that can make 300,000 cars each year. The domestic companies also need IP protections.


                        http://auto.tom.com/1440/1441/2004927-60032.html
                        About QQ and SPARK. Here is a report in Hongkong web. It is in Chinese. Let me translate some to you:
                        SPARK was debut in the market since 12/08/2003 and only 6000 SPARKs were sold until 09/04. (That means only 500 were sold each month in average), While about 10000 QQ were sold each month. (So QQ is sold 20 times better than SPARK, not 10 times. The market tells the big difference of these two cars)

                        This article also said the SPARK never applied design IP in CHina. and it was not protected according to the law. The case was settled and QQ (Chery)won.

                        GM's capacity in Shanghai is 300000 autos each year as I remember. and It could be larger due to the recent expansion.
                        Last edited by oneman28; 12 Jun 05,, 15:58.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          China started to cool down the economy since 2004. But China still made and sold more than 5 million autos in 2004, a 14% jump.

                          http://www.chinabuses.com/e2005/01/19001.htm
                          Last edited by oneman28; 12 Jun 05,, 15:45.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oneman go through link provided by me, its 2004, while ur was for 2003.(VW)
                            Hala Madrid!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...27/051528.html

                              China Auto Market Remains Attractive

                              GM's sales in China grew mildly to 132,000 vehicles in the first quarter of this year, he said.

                              Last year, GM sold 492,000 vehicles in China, up 27 per cent from 2003.

                              The company reported a 13-year record quarterly loss of US$1.1 billion during the first quarter, the firm's figures show.



                              From the previous link, you can see that GM made more than $400 million in China in 2003 and 2004.

                              Japanese makers, such as Toyota, Nissan, are gaining market share in China due to their higher quality. But I think Honda will have problem due to the recent accidents. The 3 Accords totally broke in the middle of the cars. Many Chinese think Accords are not safe enough.

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