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Syrian Air Defenses down Turkish F-4

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
    I can't see a SAM battery taking it upon itself to shoot down a plane. It had to have the go-ahead from central command and control. It's possible Syria wanted to show the world it still commands its airspace. Or, it shows how worried the Syrians are about a surprise air attack. But one plane...one wonders. Maybe they are stupid.
    JAD,

    I wouldn't assume that level of minute by minute control over individual units by Damascus right now. 18 months ago, no question, but things are a bit crazy right now. This could just as easily be a jumpy local commander following a pre-determined ROE. I imagine that Syrian Army units are a wee bit jumpy these days. That isn't to say that Damascus didn't pull the lever, but I wouldn't make any assumptions right now.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #17
      BF,

      It's a SAM unit. The guy at the missile site don't have the trigger codes. It's got to be a Colonel who order it.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
        Bizarre. Absolutely bizarre. Given Turkey's total outrage over the Mavi Marama it'll be interesting to how they react to this.
        For now comments from turkish government seem to be interestingly mild and catious so probably they are not ready or willing to provoke a crisis.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          BF,

          It's a SAM unit. The guy at the missile site don't have the trigger codes. It's got to be a Colonel who order it.
          Seem to be conflicting reports. S2 has it as AAA.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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          • #20
            Not me. Read the initial post and statement enclosed from the Syrian Defense Ministry.
            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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            • #21
              The bolded statement is interesting to say the least


              Syria has admitted it shot down a Turkish fighter jet over the Mediterranean, raising tensions between the neighbouring countries.
              Ankara warned it would respond "decisively" once it had full details of the incident, which saw the plane downed off the coast of Syria around seven miles from the village of Om al Toyour.
              The Syrian military claims the jet was flying low, less than a mile from the shore and well inside the country's territorial waters when they opened fire on it.
              With the second biggest army in Nato , Turkey would be a formidable foe for a Syrian army that is already struggling to quash a 16-month-old revolt.
              Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan 's initial comments and subsequent statement on the downing of the F-4 jet were measured in tone.
              He said Turkish and Syrian forces were working together to search for the two missing crew of the aircraft.
              "Turkey will present its final stance after the incident has been fully brought to light and decisively take the necessary steps," his statement said.
              The comments followed a two-hour emergency meeting between the prime minister, the chief of general staff, the defence, interior and foreign ministers, the head of national intelligence and the commander of the air force.
              Turkish media had reported earlier that Syria had apologised for the incident but Erdogan made no mention of any apology.
              Violence raged unabated inside Syria, which appears to be sliding into a sectarian-tinged civil war pitting majority Sunni Muslims against Mr Assad's minority Alawite sect.
              Turkey fears the fighting, if unchecked, could unleash a flood of refugees over its own border and ignite regional sectarian conflict.
              Ankara, which had drawn close to Syria before the uprising against Mr Assad , turned against the Syrian leader when he responded violently to pro-democracy protests inspired by popular upheavals elsewhere in the Arab world.
              Turkey now gives refuge to the rebel Free Syrian Army on its frontier with Syria.

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              • #22
                I'm wondering what the F4 was doing there to begin with. And if it is AAA then it is definitely within Syrian airspace. Lost pilot? *scratches head*

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                • #23
                  Bad things usually happen to pilots when their aircraft gets shot down.

                  About the Syrians and Turks working together,nothing more than the carrot and stick.If its indeed 7 miles,that's inside Syrian airspace,so the Syrians can claim some justification.They either back-off,are both sorry about the tragic mistakes,or the Turks raise the bar.
                  What the Turks can gain from a war with Syria,if it comes to that,I've no idea yet.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #24
                    Any reports on the status of the pilot(s)?
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      BF,

                      It's a SAM unit. The guy at the missile site don't have the trigger codes. It's got to be a Colonel who order it.
                      That is kinda slow process of chain of command and decision making. What if an attack comes and you only got seconds to launch the missiles before you can kiss it goodbye?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by S2 View Post
                        Not me. Read the initial post and statement enclosed from the Syrian Defense Ministry.
                        Damn. Had an image of you standing on the Sth Turkish coast wiht high powered binoculars (and a good fishing rod).
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #27
                          The plot thickens.According to the Turkish foreign minister the F-4 was in International Waters. BBC News - Turkish jet 'downed by Syria in international airspace'

                          Regardless of the supposed attempts at diffusing the situation by both sides, this is huge. I'm just curious though how they Turkey when from admitting the plane was in Syrian airspace, to claiming it was in international waters.

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                          • #28
                            Turkey did not admitted the plane was in syrian airspace. President commented it might have swayed off its course during flight but today foreign affairs minister declared that the plane was on a test mission of the international radar system (the nato radar at kürecik maybe?) and was shot down while on international waters.

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                            • #29
                              If it was out at sea, pretty hard to shoot it down with land-based AAA. If it was a SAM under control of centralized command, the decision to fire can be as quick as local control, as CC sees the same radar image as the SAM site.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Any reports on the status of the pilot(s)?
                                It seems that the most recent reports indicate that the pilots have not been located even though the wreckage has.

                                Turkey has invoked article 4 of NATO and will be consulting the other member nations this upcoming week regarding an appropriate course of action. Turkey admits that the plane had briefly violated Syrian airspace but was shot down after it was over international waters and had received no warning from Syria prior being shot down.

                                Turkey will consult NATO over shooting down of plane by Syria - The Washington Post

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