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Thread: Julian Assange - Extradition or Asylum?

  1. #61
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Mhm... on what basis exactly?
    I don't know, but Ecuador is thwarting the British justice system, and that is not going down well in GB. Sweden is also pissed that Ecuador cast doubt on its justice system's fairness.


    However, as the Foreign Office insisted the decision would not affect the UK's legal obligation to extradite him to Sweden, Mr Assange warned: "Things will get more stressful now."

    Announcing Ecuador's decision, Mr Patino launched a strong attack on the UK for what he said was an "explicit type of blackmail".

    The UK Foreign Office had warned, in a note, that it could lift the embassy's diplomatic status to fulfil a "legal obligation" to extradite the 41-year-old by using the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987.

    That allows the UK to revoke the diplomatic status of an embassy on UK soil, which would potentially allow police to enter the building to arrest Mr Assange for breaching the terms of his bail.
    BBC News - Julian Assange: Ecuador grants Wikileaks founder asylum
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  2. #62
    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Doktor wrote:
    BTW, they can put him in a "bag" and transport him anywhere.
    Tophatter wrote:
    "Experts" have determined that putting him in a diplomatic bag and outright declaring him to be an Ecuadorean diplomatic are "impractical" or some such.

    I dunno bout that. Wasn't so long ago that a spy was found in a bag right here in London so anything can happen.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    I don't know, but Ecuador is thwarting the British justice system, and that is not going down well in GB. Sweden is also pissed that Ecuador cast doubt on its justice system's fairness.
    Yeah, they've directly pissed off two countries, one of which is renown for it's neutrality. Never mind the United States.
    All for the sake of a piece of shit like Assange. Good move there Ecuador. Way to prioritize.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickshaw92 View Post
    I dunno bout that. Wasn't so long ago that a spy was found in a bag right here in London so anything can happen.
    I know right? I found that a little...odd, that they would so casually dismiss the diplomatic pouch option.
    And they've already enraged the UK over extending him asylum, so why not just make him a diplomat and make this farce complete?
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
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  4. #64
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    I think the Brits may have forced Ecuador's hand on this. Ecuador may have only given Assange asylum to stand up against the threat of their sovereignty being invaded.
    I think it was wrong of the UK to threaten their diplomatic sovereignty. If we start going into people's embassies, other, less civil nations will do the same. Not a good precedent in my opinion.
    When you attempt to bully someone, you run the risk that they may feel they have to stand up for themselves. Even if it means a beating.

  5. #65
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Yeah, they've directly pissed off two countries, one of which is renown for it's neutrality. Never mind the United States.
    All for the sake of a piece of shit like Assange. Good move there Ecuador. Way to prioritize.
    This is Ecuador's chance to Chavez the US. Bet Chavez gave the green light.



    ...so why not just make him a diplomat and make this farce complete?
    Can't do it, but they can make him their special envoy to the UN, which has diplomatic status. I don't think GB would pay such a farcical move much mind.
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  6. #66
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Native View Post
    I think the Brits may have forced Ecuador's hand on this. Ecuador may have only given Assange asylum to stand up against the threat of their sovereignty being invaded.
    More likely they want to be perceived as the a country that stands up for the oppressed, They know it's a stretch in Assange's case. That's probably why they took so long to decide on his request. It may be that pressure from GB tipped the scales.



    I think it was wrong of the UK to threaten their diplomatic sovereignty. If we start going into people's embassies, other, less civil nations will do the same. Not a good precedent in my opinion.
    When you attempt to bully someone, you run the risk that they may feel they have to stand up for themselves. Even if it means a beating.
    I agree with you in principle, but on the other hand, foreign embassies are required to respect the laws in the countries where they are located. Assange is charged with a crime in a democratic country and another democratic country is sending him back to face trial. By granting him asylum, Ecuador is thumbing its nose at the host country's court decision, indeed its whole system of government. Think of the hundreds of indicted criminals with less celebrity than Assange who could sneak into foreign embassies to escape justice back home. The only difference here is Assange's celebrity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Mhm... on what basis exactly?



    BTW, they can put him in a "bag" and transport him anywhere.

    Will be interesting.

    Article 22, 1 from the Vienna Convention (1961) is on the point:
    On this basis:

    (3)In no case is land to be regarded as a State’s diplomatic or consular premises for the purposes of any enactment or rule of law unless it has been so accepted or the Secretary of State has given that State consent under this section in relation to it; and if—
    (a)a State ceases to use land for the purposes of its mission or exclusively for the purposes of a consular post; or
    (b)the Secretary of State withdraws his acceptance or consent in relation to land,
    it thereupon ceases to be diplomatic or consular premises for the purposes of all enactments and rules of law
    Though I agree it probably wouldn't be the best move on their part.

    Not sure how Ecuador plans to get him out of the country though, and I suspect they don't really care. After the posturing and headlines are done, he'll be in UK custody again.

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    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Wasn't meant to be taken seriously Top Hatter. Though if he is a rapist then chopping him up and taking him off in a gym bag seems appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    This is Ecuador's chance to Chavez the US. Bet Chavez gave the green light.
    Like cutting off your nose to spite your face, as Native mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    I agree with you in principle, but on the other hand, foreign embassies are required to respect the laws in the countries where they are located.
    Exactly! Which is why diplomats can and do get PNG'd...which Ecuador seems to have overlooked.
    Harboring a fugitive like Assange is likely "incompatible with their diplomatic status"

    Quote Originally Posted by rickshaw92 View Post
    Wasn't meant to be taken seriously Top Hatter.
    Well it's very likely the only way to guarantee his safe passage out of the embassy and into an embassy car and from there onto a plane.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
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  10. #70
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooglin View Post
    Not sure how Ecuador plans to get him out of the country though, and I suspect they don't really care. After the posturing and headlines are done, he'll be in UK custody again.
    An interesting prediction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    I agree with you in principle, but on the other hand, foreign embassies are required to respect the laws in the countries where they are located. Assange is charged with a crime in a democratic country and another democratic country is sending him back to face trial. By granting him asylum, Ecuador is thumbing its nose at the host country's court decision, indeed its whole system of government. Think of the hundreds of indicted criminals with less celebrity than Assange who could sneak into foreign embassies to escape justice back home. The only difference here is Assange's celebrity.
    Well the principle is what concerns me here. I do not know the laws, so I won't even try to address them. But I was always under the impression that an embassy was supposed to be sovereign territory of the guest nation, or at least should be treated as such. While the guest nation should do their best to adhere to the local laws, I don't find the threats made appropriate. It's just not good politics.

    Understand, I am not talking about Assange at all. As far as I am concerned he is a probable rapist and murderer.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Now I take it that the time line for this whole scenario is that these morals charges come into being after he was in England and so called house arrest. Call me suspicious but I am about this. I recall a boxing match in 1910 between Jeffries (white) vs. Johnson (black) and Johnson destroyed Jeffries. Riots broke out across the country and left 11 dead. Johnson was then arrested by law enforcement tried and sentenced to one year in jail on ... a trumped up morals charge. So needless to say I am uncertain that these morals charges are true and not manufactured. Anything is possible as we have seen in previous rape accusations over the years.

  13. #73
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    It's really strange watching hipsters turning into raging misogynists trying to defend Assange.

    Edit: On second thought, the word is chronic, persistent, acute internet users. Half of them are women-hating recluses anyways...
    Last edited by Triple C; 17 Aug 12, at 05:59.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Now I take it that the time line for this whole scenario is that these morals charges come into being after he was in England and so called house arrest. Call me suspicious but I am about this. I recall a boxing match in 1910 between Jeffries (white) vs. Johnson (black) and Johnson destroyed Jeffries. Riots broke out across the country and left 11 dead. Johnson was then arrested by law enforcement tried and sentenced to one year in jail on ... a trumped up morals charge. So needless to say I am uncertain that these morals charges are true and not manufactured. Anything is possible as we have seen in previous rape accusations over the years.
    With all due respect, Tim, your analogy would have hold true if Assange got an warrant served by USA, UK, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Georgia, or any member of the military coalition in Iraq or Afganistan. Instead the one state Bin Laden promised never to attack, the as-left-you-can-be, neutral SWEDEN want him arrested. A country that happened to have signed a treaty banning third party extradition. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Sweden has a political ax to grind against Assange, and his antics about Sweden being CIA puppet or land of the Fem-Nazis have many of his fellow Swedes scratching their collective heads. It is beyond absurd.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
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  15. #75
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Now I take it that the time line for this whole scenario is that these morals charges come into being after he was in England and so called house arrest. Call me suspicious but I am about this. I recall a boxing match in 1910 between Jeffries (white) vs. Johnson (black) and Johnson destroyed Jeffries. Riots broke out across the country and left 11 dead. Johnson was then arrested by law enforcement tried and sentenced to one year in jail on ... a trumped up morals charge. So needless to say I am uncertain that these morals charges are true and not manufactured. Anything is possible as we have seen in previous rape accusations over the years.
    OK, so the Swedish government has persuaded a couple of left-leaning women to invent rape allegations against Assange to get Assange to Sweden so he can be extradited to the US (because apparently you can't extradite people to the US from Britain???). Just say that a few times out loud & see how it sounds. Try it on a neutral audience & see what they think.

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