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Thread: Julian Assange - Extradition or Asylum?

  1. #46
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    J
    Leaving one to suspect what exactly his intent is with avoiding going to Sweden.
    How about this: He's guilty, he knows it, and he doesn't want to go to jail and come out labelled a sexual deviate. Pretty powerful incentive to use all means available to avoid arrest. I suppose we'd all do that. Only he has the advantage of notoriety and a world stage on which to cry foul.
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  2. #47
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Yep, that's a valid insinuation.

    I say insinuation because he hasn't been tried & convicted yet. And it seems like he is trying his best to avoid it.

    What gets me is hackers tends to be paranoid by nature and very careful. That he could slip up in the bedroom in this way is careless. He's got a huge ego that's for sure.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Jun 12, at 17:30.

  3. #48
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Justice for Sweden
    June 26, 2012
    Justice for Sweden | Free Malaysia Today
    The UK Supreme Court’s decision means only that Assange will be transferred to Sweden for interrogation. It does not mean that he will be tried, or even charged.
    COMMENT

    By Marten Schultz

    Julian Assange’s bizarre bid for political asylum in Ecuador’s embassy in London has claimed headlines everywhere, but it has obscured an important truth: last month’s decision by the United Kingdom’s Supreme Court that Assange should be extradited to Sweden to face allegations of sexual crimes was the only possible outcome.

    The alternative – to reject the European Arrest Warrant issued by Swedish authorities – would have signaled distrust of Sweden’s legal system, which would have been unfair.

    Whatever one’s sentiments about Assange and the claims that he has made in trying to secure asylum in Ecuador, let us be very clear: Sweden is a Rechtstaat – a state governed by the rule of law – in every sense.

    The Swedish court system is characterized by foreseeability, fairness, humanism, and high professional quality. These are facts.

    Yet this description fits poorly with the image of the Swedish legal system that has dominated the debate since the allegations against Assange became public. Indeed, Assange and his supporters have portrayed Sweden’s legal system as a wilderness of injustice and political corruption.

    This caricature has become a problem for Sweden. When influential people – filmmaker Michael Moore, feminist Naomi Wolf, journalist John Pilger, and many others – launch attacks on the Swedish legal system, it affects the country’s democratic reputation.

    And, unfortunately, the caricature has been allowed to dominate impressions of Sweden, because representatives of its legal system and other Swedish experts have failed to provide a more accurate picture.

    When I travel abroad and meet lawyers interested in the Assange case (and they are many), I get asked the most incredible questions about Sweden’s legal system. Is it true that men are convicted of rape in Sweden on the sole basis of a woman’s allegations?

    Is it rape in Sweden when a condom breaks? Is it correct that Swedish judges contact the United States Justice Department before passing judgment in politically sensitive cases?

    The list goes on. Did the Swedish Prosecutor-General meet with representatives of the US Embassy before the European Arrest Warrant in the Assange case was issued? Are judges selected by political appointment?

    Is it true that official Sweden is steeped in feminist ideology, and that Swedish public servants are taught that women never lie? Will the Swedish police put Assange on a plane to Guantánamo Bay as soon as he arrives?

    The answer is no

    The answer to all of these questions is “no,” though a couple of them point to half-truths. Let me return to these later on. Before turning to them, let us recall what actually happened in the Assange case.

    Assange came to Sweden in 2010 as a spokesperson for WikiLeaks. Ironically, one of the reasons for his visit was Sweden’s good legal reputation; he came to investigate whether WikiLeaks could benefit from the unique protection afforded to information under our constitutional free-speech guarantees.

    During Assange’s stay, two events occurred that led to accusations against him for sexual assault of two women. Before Assange was interrogated, he left the country. He then refused to return to Sweden, starting an almost two-year process to extradite him.

    The UK Supreme Court’s decision means only that Assange will be transferred to Sweden for interrogation. It does not mean that he will be tried, or even charged.

    It is entirely possible that he will be transferred to Sweden, questioned, and released if the Swedish authorities find that there are insufficient grounds for prosecution. It is impossible – as it should be – to predict how the case will unfold.

    What we do know is that Assange will receive fair treatment by Swedish legal institutions. And, yes, their respect for the rule of law extends to accusations of sexual offenses. As recently as a few years ago, the Swedish Supreme Court explicitly ruled that the same high standard of proof applied to other criminal allegations are to be applied in cases of suspected rape.

    Similar criticisms of the Swedish legal system are based largely on myths and misconceptions. The framework of Sweden’s criminal law with respect to sexual offenses is no different from most other countries’.

    I will not be sentenced for rape if my condom breaks during a sexual act. But, like in many other countries, I can be convicted of rape if I have sex with a sleeping or unconscious person.

    The Swedish judges who may preside if Assange is brought to trial will not take orders from any government agencies, and will not be influenced by pressure from elsewhere.

    Corruption in the Swedish judiciary is extremely low. We do have politically appointed laypersons as judges (similar to jurors) – a system about which I am critical – but they do not act as politicians in their judicial function, and studies suggest that their political beliefs do not influence their judgments at all.

    Finally, no, the Swedish police did not place Assange on a CIA-chartered plane as soon as he arrived at Stockholm airport. They, like all other Swedish authorities, discharged their duties according to the law.

    Mårten Schultz is Professor of Law, Stockholm University.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  4. #49
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I will not be sentenced for rape if my condom breaks during a sexual act. But, like in many other countries, I can be convicted of rape if I have sex with a sleeping or unconscious person.
    Thats the one

  5. #50
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Julian Assange: UK issues 'threat' to arrest Wikileaks founder

    Ecuador has accused the UK of making a "threat" to enter its embassy in London to arrest Wikileaks' Julian Assange.

    Mr Assange took refuge at the embassy in June to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he faces questioning over assault and rape claims, which he denies.

    Ecuador foreign minister Ricardo Patino also said a decision on the 41-year-old's bid for political asylum had been made and would be revealed on Thursday.

    The Foreign Office said it could revoke the embassy's diplomatic status.

    In a statement issued as Mr Patino spoke, it said the UK had a "legal obligation" to extradite Mr Assange.

    The Wikileaks website published a mass of leaked diplomatic cables that embarrassed several governments, particularly the US, in 2010, and Mr Assange says he fears Sweden will pass him on to the American authorities.

    Meanwhile, a number of police officers are outside the embassy, in Knightsbridge.
    more... BBC News - Julian Assange: UK issues 'threat' to arrest Wikileaks founder
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  6. #51

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    It would seem that at some point he'd have to leave the premises and board a flight for Ecuador. Even if a private charter there'd be a period where he'd be compelled to leave an auto and step aboard a plane. I'd think his arrest, if adroitly-handled, could be effected then.

    I also think, aside from the travesty created by willfully dodging this opportunity to clear his name in court, he'd face a life trivialized by his choice of residency in Ecuador. His price would be as a mouthpiece for Rafe Correa. Any reasoned and objective soul would consider his credibility impugned by his unusual circumstances. It certainly couldn't be viewed as a masterstroke of Ecuadorian diplomacy either.
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  7. #52
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    i'm pretty sure he could find refuge in Venezula or Cuba... as long as he agrees to only leak USA / European shite of course

  8. #53
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    It would seem that at some point he'd have to leave the premises and board a flight for Ecuador. Even if a private charter there'd be a period where he'd be compelled to leave an auto and step aboard a plane. I'd think his arrest, if adroitly-handled, could be effected then.

    I also think, aside from the travesty created by willfully dodging this opportunity to clear his name in court, he'd face a life trivialized by his choice of residency in Ecuador. His price would be as a mouthpiece for Rafe Correa. Any reasoned and objective soul would consider his credibility impugned by his unusual circumstances. It certainly couldn't be viewed as a masterstroke of Ecuadorian diplomacy either.
    The moment he leaves the embassy he is fair game. Diplomats have immunity. he doesn't. The Brits can just stop the car & haul him out before it gets a few hundred meters without breaching any diplomatic rules or conventions. The only way around that is if the Ecuadorians find a way to sneak him out or make him a diplomat. I'm not even sure if the latter is possible - I think the host coutry has to recognize the credentials first. I suspect this is one of those things that is a rubber stamp formality until it isn't. I suspect he isn't going anywhere except maybe Sweden.


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  9. #54
    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    I feel for the poor soul that came up with his bail money....
    Ego Numquam

  10. #55
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    I feel for the poor soul that came up with his bail money....
    Nah, they knew what they were getting into.


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  11. #56
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    Oh Ecuador, you really want to play with the big boys don't you



    Ecuador grants Assange asylum
    Ecuadorean officials announced on Thursday that they would grant asylum to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, defying threats by the British government to raid the Ecuadorean Embassy and extradite Assange to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning in connection with alleged rape and sexual molestation cases.
    "We have decided to grant political asylum to him," Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said at the end of a long televised statement that criticized the U.S. and U.K. governments for failing to protect Assange from political persecution.
    "The countries that have a right to protect Assange have failed him," Patino said.
    A crowd gathered outside the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, where Assange has been holed up since June, to hear the verdict. At least one protester was arrested.
    The U.K. Foreign and Commonwealth Office called Ecuador's decision to grant Assange asylum "regrettable."
    U.K. authorities say Assange's asylum is a violation of his probation; Assange fears his extradition would lead him to be turned over to the United States, which has condemned WikiLeaks' publication of classified documents. (Assange says the U.S. would charge him with espionage.)
    On Wednesday, Patino said he received a "clear and written" threat from the United Kingdom that "they could storm our embassy in London if Ecuador refuses to hand in Julian Assange."
    The foreign minister said the country would announce its decision on Thursday whether to grant asylum to Assange.
    ""We want to be very clear, we're not a British colony," Patino said. "Colonial times are over."
    British officials said they are obligated to turn Assange over.
    "The U.K. has a legal obligation to extradite Mr. Assange to Sweden to face questioning over allegations of sexual offenses and we remain determined to fulfill this obligation," a spokesman for Foreign and Commonwealth Office said in response. "Under British law we can give them a week's notice before entering the premises and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection. But that decision has not yet been taken. We are not going to do this overnight. We want to stress that we want a diplomatically agreeable solution."
    In a statement early Thursday, WikiLeaks condemned the U.K.'s threat:
    A threat of this nature is a hostile and extreme act, which is not proportionate to the circumstances, and an unprecedented assault on the rights of asylum seekers worldwide.
    In 2010, Swedish prosecutors in Stockholm issued warrants to question Assange about the alleged sex crimes. Assange claims the charges are part of an international smear campaign stemming from WikiLeaks' publication of diplomatic cables.

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  12. #57
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    I am wandering how the police would raid an embassy.

    Will they start a war with Ecuador?
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  13. #58
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    I am wandering how the police would raid an embassy.

    Will they start a war with Ecuador?
    They can yank the whole embassy's diplomatic status.

    Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987
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  14. #59
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Mhm... on what basis exactly?

    a)to the safety of the public;

    (b)to national security; and

    (c)to town and country planning.
    BTW, they can put him in a "bag" and transport him anywhere.

    Will be interesting.

    Article 22, 1 from the Vienna Convention (1961) is on the point:

    Article 22
    1.The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter
    them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.
    Last edited by Doktor; 16 Aug 12, at 16:03.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    BTW, they can put him in a "bag" and transport him anywhere.
    "Experts" have determined that putting him in a diplomatic bag and outright declaring him to be an Ecuadorean diplomatic are "impractical" or some such.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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