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Thread: Julian Assange - Extradition or Asylum?

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    He's doing such a good job self-destructing, why bother extraditing him. If he is rearrested in the UK, which seems likely, since the only possible way for him to get to Equator is if Equator appoints him its UN representative, it is almost a sure bet he'll end up in the US on trial.
    Did you mean US or Sweden?

    Agree with the rest, thought I suspect this is one of those things where people who see him as a hero/victim will continue to do so beyond the point of rational calculation & those who see him as the devil incarnate will do the same. He is going to Sweden, just a matter of time.


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  2. #32
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Did you mean US or Sweden?
    Yes. Actually both, but the former not for a long time.

    Agree with the rest, thought I suspect this is one of those things where people who see him as a hero/victim will continue to do so beyond the point of rational calculation & those who see him as the devil incarnate will do the same. He is going to Sweden, just a matter of time.
    Couldn't agree more. He joins the pantheon of lonely counterculture warriors who forever make the rounds of ultra-liberal social events picking up cash crumbs to continue their cause--that is, after he has been neutered and suitably punished, which will add length to his martyr garments.
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  3. #33
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    they are dragging it out perpetually just to keep sticking it to him. The charges by the girl(s) were dropped but the "questioning" continued indefinetely so if you have to live somewhere where you don't have a job/life setup its umberrable to report every time to stupid questioning which doesn't end and the only reason is to bring more charges up for not coming. Stupid to do this because in the end it implies that the only way is to fight the system anonymously and underhandedly playing the strongest hand without fighting on level ground ever simply speaking making your own law and enforcing it.
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

  4. #34
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    We believe Mr. Assange has good reason to fear extradition to Sweden, as there is a strong likelihood that once in Sweden, he would be imprisoned, and then likely extradited to the United States.

    As U.S. legal expert and commentator Glenn Greenwald recently noted, were Assange to be charged in Sweden, he would be imprisoned under "very oppressive conditions, where he could be held incommunicado," rather than released on bail. Pre-trial hearings for such a case in Sweden are held in secret, and so the media and wider public, Greenwald notes, would not know how the judicial decisions against Mr. Assange would be made and what information would be considered.
    They do that ? in sweden for a rape case ?

  5. #35
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyppok View Post
    they are dragging it out perpetually just to keep sticking it to him.
    Could it have something to do with his attitude that he is above the law?

    The charges by the girl(s) were dropped...
    It appears the girls did not withdraw the charges, according to a December 2010 Bloomberg article. The original prosecutor had dropped them in August of that year. The girls appealed and Swedish prosecutor Marianne Ny reversed course and issue an arrest warrant, dropping the rape charge for, it appears, a charge of molestation.

    Ny started her preliminary investigation in September after a lawyer representing the two women appealed another prosecutor’s decision to drop the rape charge and reduce molestation charges. Ny heads the Prosecution Authority Development Center in Gothenburg, which handles appeals against prosecutor decisions on sex crimes.
    Assange Loses Swedish High Court Appeal of Arrest Warrant on Rape Charges - Bloomberg


    ...but the "questioning" continued indefinetely so if you have to live somewhere where you don't have a job/life setup its umberrable to report every time to stupid questioning which doesn't end and the only reason is to bring more charges up for not coming.
    What questioning? Sweden wants him for questioning. It illegal under Swedish law for suspect interviews to be conducted over the phone or on camera, as Assange wants to do. Why should he be granted an exception? If he were Joe Blow there wouldn't be any issue, but because he's Assange, he gets a break?
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  6. #36
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    They do that ? in sweden for a rape case ?
    It's tantamount to a pre-trial hearing in the US. They're closed to protect the accused should the state not have a good case. They are not trials, but rather reviews to determine whether sufficient evidence exists to proceed to trial. The trial, if there is one, will be public.
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  7. #37
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Very good. I wonder why Greenwald as the legal expert chose not to say that.

    The way Moore says it one gets the impression that Assange would be found guilty and imprisoned.

    And there is the impression that this is what Assange wants to avoid.

    Assange does have an aura about him due to WL but there are other leaks sites out there now. No where as notorious but the idea is out there now.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Jun 12, at 04:45.

  8. #38
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Very good. I wonder why Greenwald as the legal expert chose not to say that.
    Just an impression, the protester elite have a legendary capacity for ignoring facts that might upset their version of the truth.


    The way Moore says it one gets the impression that Assange would be found guilty and imprisoned.
    There's a living to be made by exposing the unhidden.
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  9. #39
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Fine, but why are they going out of their way to defend Assange facing a rape charge in a civilised country.

    They think he will be imprisoned ie will be found guilty. But that isn't the problem, its that once imprisoned he could be extradited to the US and that is why he must dodge the swedish case to the full extent.

    Thing is he could if the US wanted him, be extradited from the UK, Sweden or Ecuador. The rape charge and going to sweden is irrelevant in that case isn't it.

    That is how it comes across to me anyway.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Fine, but why are they going out of their way to defend Assange facing a rape charge in a civilised country.

    They think he will be imprisoned ie will be found guilty. But that isn't the problem, its that once imprisoned he could be extradited to the US and that is why he must dodge the swedish case to the full extent.

    Thing is he could if the US wanted him, be extradited from the UK, Sweden or Ecuador. The rape charge and going to sweden is irrelevant in that case isn't it.

    That is how it comes across to me anyway.
    Also I think he did go in for 'questioning' several times the problem it is unending in my view. I think questioning will continue until there is something that sticks to incriminate him be it manufactured in the past or present matters not. I reiterate it just makes others like Assange see the system for what it is "getting its way any means necessary" thus it must be fought with the same audacity and without limits...
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

  11. #41
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I am wondering whether there is some statute of limitations on rape cases, ie after a certain period of time he can longer be tried for it. In that case all he has to do is delay until that limit is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyppok View Post
    Also I think he did go in for 'questioning' several times the problem it is unending in my view. I think questioning will continue until there is something that sticks to incriminate him be it manufactured in the past or present matters not. I reiterate it just makes others like Assange see the system for what it is "getting its way any means necessary" thus it must be fought with the same audacity and without limits...
    Ah, so the draw is that he's fighting the system. But Sweden isn't going to administer some kangaroo justice here.

    I wonder if funding for legal fees is an issue, he seems to have raised enough to be on bail in the Uk so this should not be a problem.

    The idea of WL is transparency. Most people would have expected him to face those charges and clear his name.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Jun 12, at 06:46.

  12. #42
    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post

    I wonder if funding for legal fees is an issue, he seems to have raised enough to be on bail in the Uk so this should not be a problem.
    No some poor bloke went guarantor for him. said poor bloke has now lost his money that he did need.

    There are honest and well meaning people behind him - unfortunately they are going to pay a heavy price for his ego centric personality.
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  13. #43
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I am wondering whether there is some statute of limitations on rape cases, ie after a certain period of time he can longer be tried for it. In that case all he has to do is delay until that limit is over.
    My guess is that statute of limitations is more about laying charges than completeing trials. he has been charged & the procvess is underway. I doubt there is a ticking clock, especially since the only one keeping it ticking is him.

    Ah, so the draw is that he's fighting the system. But Sweden isn't going to administer some kangaroo justice here.
    Apparently Sweden is now a corrupt lackey of American imperialism. Don't you know nuthin'

    I wonder if funding for legal fees is an issue, he seems to have raised enough to be on bail in the Uk so this should not be a problem.
    Plenty of backers with more money than sense, though a few less now.

    The idea of WL is transparency. Most people would have expected him to face those charges and clear his name.
    Only those people who don't know much about his personality.


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  14. #44
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Fine, but why are they going out of their way to defend Assange facing a rape charge in a civilised country.
    Because they believe or wish others to believe that the reason Sweden wants him extradited is not what Sweden claims it to be. At least, that's their argument, or rather the argument of Assange's camp. Being celebrities, they know their appeal on Assange's behalf will attract media attention and hopefully public support. The other aspect is to create doubt in the public's mind that this is truly just a common criminal case.

    Thing is he could if the US wanted him, be extradited from the UK, Sweden or Ecuador. The rape charge and going to sweden is irrelevant in that case isn't it.
    It's not irrelevant below the surface. Two women lodged a complaint against him. Ostensibly he broke the law. The state has an obligation to determine the facts and proceed to trial if the facts support the charge. In this instance, the person charged is doing all he can to avoid arrest or face-to-face questioning by the police. He flew the country to a country which has an extradition treaty with it. Now the state uses the treaty to continue pursuit of the accused, which under these circumstances always happens. The accused counters by accusing the state of political retribution. What is a state supposed to do now? Abandon its duty to uphold the law? No. A well run state will not relent else it de facto admits the accused is right. Worse, by relenting it fails its duty to uphold the law. For Sweden the case has become political, but domestically, in that a failure to carry on will reflect badly on politicians in control of the Swedish government.

    Now it's true the US could try to extradite him, but first the US has to indict him of a bona fide violation of law existing at the time the alleged offense was committed. If the charge carries a maximum penalty of death, Sweden will not extradite him. While many believe he'll eventually end up in the US, that is not a legal reason to avoid arrest on an unrelated charge.

    That is how it comes across to me anyway.
    Your doubt is exactly what Assnage and his supporters are after with their song and dance about all this being a charade to get him for his leaking.
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  15. #45
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    JAD agree

    What I mean to say about the rape case being irrelevant is that i cannot see any connection between it & being extradited to the US. If Assange was so concerned about extradition he should be looking to go to countries that do not have an extradition treaty with the US. This way he can paint the US as some authoritarian country that is against freedom of information and is after him for the leaks so he has to protect himself.

    But he has not done this so far.

    Leaving one to suspect what exactly his intent is with avoiding going to Sweden.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Jun 12, at 15:22.

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