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Thread: Julian Assange - Extradition or Asylum?

  1. #136
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Correct. It was the start of far-left digital extremism against the United States.
    Russians trying to compromise the Americans by info warfare using whatever..far left or anything else is ok

  2. #137
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Russians trying to compromise the Americans by info warfare using whatever..far left or anything else is ok
    Do not disagree. But the selection matters. Had it been Alex Jones, it would have been far-right. But, here's the thing, far-right is slightly difficult to compromise (country, nationalism, immigration, pure blood etc etc). Far-left (ideals), and you have an activist sexual offender whose name is Julian Assange. Russia looked for anybody in the wide spectrum and they got Assange, someone in the far-left to prop up the center-right Trump. Assange got played trying to play activism (he basically went against the left, Hillary got screwed). Does Assange still believe he got played? I don't think so. They have a twisted narrative of what they think is right, and that everybody else is wrong.

    I might be wrong, corrections are welcome.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  3. #138
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    But the selection matters.
    Yes, it does. Has to be tailored to the country's circumstances. So for the US, Assange works even though he isn't even American.

    Had it been Alex Jones, it would have been far-right. But, here's the thing, far-right is slightly difficult to compromise (country, nationalism, immigration, pure blood etc etc).
    snapper said she was part of UKIP until she realised they were getting Russian money and then quit. She then lost her anti-EU fervour shortly after.

    Front nationale in France has openly admitted to receiving funds from Russia

    Any far right group in Europe. But these attempts failed to affect elections in numerous Euro countries. UK, France, Holland, Austria & Germany. The far right candidates didn't win. The rationale for supporting far right groups is they would be anti-EU and the Russian goal here is break up the EU. And maybe NATO after. Sever the US - Euro link.

    This is why the Democrats are so hell bent on the Russian collusion angle. They firmly believe Russia helped Trump win even though its unlikely the Russians alone could actually pull this off. Give Trump's campaign a boost, yes but that's it at best. That would put them in the same league as any number of interests that lobby for one party or the other.

    Far-left (ideals), and you have an activist sexual offender whose name is Julian Assange. Russia looked for anybody in the wide spectrum and they got Assange, someone in the far-left to prop up the center-right Trump. Assange got played trying to play activism (he basically went against the left, Hillary got screwed). Does Assange still believe he got played? I don't think so. They have a twisted narrative of what they think is right, and that everybody else is wrong.

    I might be wrong, corrections are welcome.
    Bolded bit, They will use anyone to further their goals.

    I don't know what Assange's motivations for participation were. Maybe it was world peace through transparency regardless of the means.

    The Cambridge 4 back in the 40s, said world peace was their motivation for compromising the Americans. And boy did they do a through job of it. The Soviets knew about the American nuclear program, before the American public did.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Apr 19, at 17:41.

  4. #139
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    ^ Sorry, but please drop Snapper from this discussion. I have zero interest in UK's political discourse or Brexit. If it's difficult to understand what I'm trying to say, I'll explain further. Left-wing extremism is much more serious to Nat'Sec than right-wing extremism. Consider India, we've witnessed left-wing extremism for decades and still it burns. Leftists believe in ideals. Those can't be bought (in their glorious minds). Corner those ideals, and one can make them puppets. Savvy?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  5. #140
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    and what about the rest of the EU ?

    UK is just one element in the whole equation

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    it took me a while to understand what wiki leaks was about I think it marked the start of the Russian hybrid campaign against the Americans.
    Maybe, but I'm a little confused on how you mean that. Could you expand on it a bit? Here's another popular argument that is claiming it was the left (Democrats) in the US that were behind it all. https://www.mintpressnews.com/silenc...ssange/243665/

    Agree or disagree with that, there's a ton of material there to discuss.

  7. #142
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    Both are as dangerous to democracy, liberty and often life itself if you object. Aristotle's 'Golden Mean' and pragmatism so far as it works toward better long term future should be the rules of politics. Not stirring racial or religious fears and hatreds or 'class divides' in the old Marxist lexicon. Prosperity, transparency, accountability rather than hatred based on lies.

    Assange and wikileaks leaked hacked emails known to have been hacked by Muscovite GRU. That was an attack on US democracy and Assange was complicit.
    Last edited by snapper; 11 Apr 19, at 18:00.

  8. #143
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Since you edited your post. Assange is a lower IQ'd idiot. World peace? WTF is that? World peace means we slap the Chinese, they leave Tibet/PoK/Shaksgam valley, and we share Darjeeling tea afterwards. Iranians and Israelis sharing beers together. That is world peace. Muslims countries giving freedom to their subjects, as muslims enjoy in western countries. That is freedom. I don't see any far-left activist fighting for such.

    Yeah, I see, assholes, masquerading as liberals and activists chanting how bad America is. How India is killing Kashmiris. How the Israelis are responsible for killing Palestinians. Activism is good for college life, one gets to sleep with a lot of ugly, hairy chicks. Idealism my foot. Half a million Kashmiri Pandits were ethnically cleansed from Kashmir, through the use of loudspeakers from Mosques, by Pakistani terrorists.

    Nuke designs were leaked because of lax-security of the British, to the Russians. Americans were pissed. That's it. Not saying America had it water-tight, but security in US was far better.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  9. #144
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Since you edited your post. Assange is a lower IQ'd idiot. World peace? WTF is that? World peace means we slap the Chinese, they leave Tibet/PoK/Shaksgam valley, and we share Darjeeling tea afterwards. Iranians and Israelis sharing beers together. That is world peace. Muslims countries giving freedom to their subjects, as muslims enjoy in western countries. That is freedom. I don't see any far-left activist fighting for such.
    I don't know what Assange's motivations are, I speculated it could be world peace.

    By putting out US communications across a period with the rest of the world, whatever plots cooked up would be compromised. Leading to less wars and hence peace ?

    Hillary's argument at the time was it put lives at risk but as far as i know not a single person has been killed anywhere in the world as a result of wiki leaks.

    The India angle was of interest to those looking for ways to trace corruption to various officials. None have come to light as fat as i know.

    Nuke designs were leaked because of lax-security of the British, to the Russians. Americans were pissed. That's it. Not saying America had it water-tight, but security in US was far better.
    The people doing the leaking were committed communists
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Apr 19, at 18:15.

  10. #145
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by montgomery View Post
    Maybe, but I'm a little confused on how you mean that. Could you expand on it a bit?
    Look up the Gerasimov doctrine of hybrid war. Another article. To me Wiki leaks only made sense after

    Panama papers leak followed a few years later. That was a way to get back at the Russians.

    Here's another popular argument that is claiming it was the left (Democrats) in the US that were behind it all. https://www.mintpressnews.com/silenc...ssange/243665/

    Agree or disagree with that, there's a ton of material there to discuss.
    Why do it when a Democrat was in office ?

    Wiki leaks is to embarass the US. Does not matter which party is in office. The target is all US.

    Now if the Americans that cooperated in this affair didn't realise the larger game then that is sad.

    Manning was released some time back. He's become a Ms. now
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Apr 19, at 03:07.

  11. #146
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    There's a story at Reuters that says the UK has pledged to not send Assange to a country that has the death penalty or uses torture. Strange, considering that the UK moved on Assange to satisfy the US demand for extradition. This has to mean that the UK will have to reneg on the deal or at least get a guarantee from the US that it won't seek the death penalty.

    Will the EU have a role to play in what the UK decides to do with Assange? And more importantly, how will domestic US politics dictate the outcome? There's a lot at stake for both Trump and the Democrats.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1RN135

    p.s. https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/05...imov-doctrine/
    on the Gerasimov doctrine.
    Last edited by montgomery; 11 Apr 19, at 18:24.

  12. #147
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    As far as I understand asylum rules, and I am no lawyer of any sort but have just the read laws, if a person may be killed by being sent home - or extradited - then you cannot send them home or extradite them. That does not mean that Assange cannot be extradited if the UK Government is given assurances he will not face a death sentence.

  13. #148
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I don't know what Assange's motivations are, I speculated it could be world peace.

    By putting out US communications across a period with the rest of the world, whatever plots cooked up would be compromised. Leading to less wars and hence peace ?
    It could have been easy. File a court case and see it thorough. Or educate people and have foot marches in Washington. Instead he colluded with an enemy country. And how did he accomplish those exactly? By locking himself up in a foreign embassy. When he came to his senses, it was too late.

    If Russian meddling in US elections had gotten any more serious, there could have been a war. That would not have led to peace. It'd have been the end of the world as we know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The people doing the leaking were committed communists
    I was talking about lax security. You're talking about ideology. Back then, and even now, for some, fantasy is the epitome of ideology.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Look up the Gerasimov doctrine of hybrid war. To me Wiki leaks only made sense after

    Panama papers leak followed a few years later. That was a way to get back at the Russians.



    Why do it when a Democrat was in office ?
    Like I said, it's not my theory.

    Wiki leaks is to embarass the US. Does not matter which party is in office. The target is all US.
    I don't disagree but Wikileaks was/is a lot more than just to embarrass the US. Unless you consider Nato as the US.

    Now if the Americans that cooperated in this affair didn't realise the larger game then that is sad.
    I would suggest that they knew exactly what they were doing. They were/are subversives who worked with a cause, and that being the antiwar cause, as you seemed to have suggested.

    Manning was released some time back. He's become a Ms. now
    Yeah, I know. And I guess that US law makes him immune from further prosecution? I wonder if she's going to have an active mouth on the whole affair, or she will be silenced?

    RT.com is going to have the best US rightist spin on this. And antiwar.com is too because they're not as antiwar as they are libertarian/right. And how the hell the left is going to spin it, I can't imagine yet? The US left is not the traditional left. I can only see a big crack widening within the Dem party.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    It could have been easy. File a court case and see it thorough. Or educate people and have foot marches in Washington.
    Educate people? Americans are already educated as much as they're going to be on the war/antiwar atmosphere in their country. The antiwar side is piss all right now.

    If Russian meddling in US elections had gotten any more serious, there could have been a war.
    No. And you've followed up with the reason why not. Finally!

    It'd have been the end of the world as we know it.
    That dual personality is leading to a lot of contradictions. Slow down.
    Last edited by montgomery; 11 Apr 19, at 18:53.

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