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Thread: DDG-1000 News

  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Hi-res USN photo of Zumwalt with F-35.

    http://www.navy.mil/management/photo...-VT045-001.JPG
    Would love to know how Flopper Murphy got that call sign!
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  2. #287
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Here is collection of photos of Zumwalt in Maryland.

    http://gcaptain.com/15-great-photos-...-in-baltimore/

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    The USN is cancelling the LRLAP rounds designed for the DDG-1000's 155mm Advanced Gun System. Despite good performance from both the AGS and the LRLAP rounds, cutting the DDG-1000 class to just 3 ships ballooned the cost per round to ~$800,000 per shot since there were not enough LRLAP orders to put it into mass production. The Navy is looking for industry solutions to find a new projectile for the AGS.

    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...ave-no-bullets


    At this point does it make more sense to just rip the AGS out of the ships altogether and add a bunch of VLS cells or the upcoming Railgun instead? I'm assuming the Naval Fire Support mission hasn't gone away, but a cheaper alternative to the LRLAP is unlikely to have the same capabilities. (80nm range/GPS guidance)

    Additional VLS cells loaded with Tomahawks could provide much better range and striking power per shot than the AGS, but with a drastically smaller magazine size.

    The Railgun option makes the most sense to me. The DDG-1000's already have 80 VLS tubes, so adding more doesn't provide a new capability. The Railgun provides better range than the AGS, and projected costs for projectiles are ~$25,000, making them significantly cheaper to fire in volume. The possibilities to use a railgun system for roles such as surface warfare and air defense also make it more flexible than the AGS. The downside is that it will probably be another 5+ years before it could be fielded. :/
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 07 Nov 16, at 16:47.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    The USN is cancelling the LRLAP rounds designed for the DDG-1000's 155mm Advanced Gun System. Despite good performance from both the AGS and the LRLAP rounds, cutting the DDG-1000 class to just 3 ships ballooned the cost per round to ~$800,000 per shot since there were not enough LRLAP orders to put it into mass production. The Navy is looking for industry solutions to find a new projectile for the AGS.

    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...ave-no-bullets

    At this point does it make more sense to just rip the AGS out of the ships altogether and add a bunch of VLS cells or the upcoming Railgun instead?
    And how much would that cost?...

    The ignorant asks: can't these guns use the same rounds as the army's M109 SPG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    And how much would that cost?...

    The ignorant asks: can't these guns use the same rounds as the army's M109 SPG?

    "While software changes will certainly be needed to incorporate other munitions into the AGS, adapting the handling system for a different round could be complex. The automated magazines, designed to hold 300 LRLAPs, are sized for that particular weapon and it’s unlikely another munition would have exactly the same dimensions."


    Gutting the automated magazines would be an expensive move, and they very well may have to pull the whole AGS to do it. It sounds like the current plan is to try to develop a cheaper type of ammunition that presumably fits the LRLAP dimensions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    Gutting the automated magazines would be an expensive move, and they very well may have to pull the whole AGS to do it. It sounds like the current plan is to try to develop a cheaper type of ammunition that presumably fits the LRLAP dimensions.
    Yes, I noticed that part, but, when adapting other rounds, I was thinking of rounds of a similar caliber. But I do know "same caliber" is not enough. Are the rounds of the AGS single piece, ie, shell+explosive in a single cartridge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Yes, I noticed that part, but, when adapting other rounds, I was thinking of rounds of a similar caliber. But I do know "same caliber" is not enough. Are the rounds of the AGS single piece, ie, shell+explosive in a single cartridge?
    The LRLAP uses a propelling charge separate from the projectile. You can see how it's a bit of an odd duck as far as shaping. I don't doubt the gun itself could fire other projectiles of equal diameter, but I can see how the magazines and loading equipment would be all wrong for more traditional ammunition.

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    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 07 Nov 16, at 20:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    The LRLAP uses a propelling charge separate from the projectile. You can see how it's a bit of an odd duck as far as shaping. I don't doubt the gun itself could fire other projectiles of equal diameter, but I can see how the magazines and loading equipment would be all wrong for more traditional ammunition.
    Wow, that's a pretty complicated round...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    And how much would that cost?...

    The ignorant asks: can't these guns use the same rounds as the army's M109 SPG?
    As I recall, the original plan was that AGS would be compatible with all NATO 155mm ammunition, but some change was made to the gun early on that forced the AGS to be incompatible with existing ammunition. I can't recall if it was a change to the gun's chamber or something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrb1537 View Post
    As I recall, the original plan was that AGS would be compatible with all NATO 155mm ammunition, but some change was made to the gun early on that forced the AGS to be incompatible with existing ammunition. I can't recall if it was a change to the gun's chamber or something else.
    ... that was... not smart. Does this mean, then, that it can fire even the US' Copperhead laser-guided round?

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    JLVFR,

    No it cannot.

    The Copperhead is old technology. It was designed to fit NATO standard 155mm but had to have a laser designator on target. Even then it lacked accuracy.

    The M982 Excalibur GPS r155mm is much more accurate and state of the art. In my last job I worked for the colonel who as a LTC was the PM for that project. They got it out the door in record time.

    I believe the 155mm on the Zumwalts were supposed to be the same or similar to the 155mm from the Army's Future Combat System. FCS got canned. There would have been greater economies of scale on shared ammo which would have brought this into LRLAP into the realm of the cost effective.

    Pushing the edge on weapons systems has consequences and when production numbers decrease unit costs increase. Happens on every program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    I believe the 155mm on the Zumwalts were supposed to be the same or similar to the 155mm from the Army's Future Combat System. FCS got canned. There would have been greater economies of scale on shared ammo which would have brought this into LRLAP into the realm of the cost effective.

    Pushing the edge on weapons systems has consequences and when production numbers decrease unit costs increase. Happens on every program.
    Completely forgot the Excalibur...

    I'm guessing the cheaper alternative will be to alter of-the-shelf rounds (navy 127mm or the 155mm) to be fired by these guns. Anything else would, afaik, involve major alterations to the gun & ship, or am I wrong?

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Completely forgot the Excalibur...

    I'm guessing the cheaper alternative will be to alter of-the-shelf rounds (navy 127mm or the 155mm) to be fired by these guns. Anything else would, afaik, involve major alterations to the gun & ship, or am I wrong?
    The LRLAP is basicly a guided missile fired from an artillery tube. With the shipboard magazines and loading mechanism designed specifically to fit the LRLAP's unusual shape, I believe the Navy is looking for industry proposals for a cheaper replacement built to the same dimensions as the LRLAP.

    Modifying existing ammunition inventory could probably be done by adding a LRLAP shaped sabot to 127mm rounds, but at that point, why not just task a Burke with it's Mark 45 to do the job? Particularly since the USN is working to acquire a LRLAP/Excalibur type round to be fired from the Mark 45.

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    USS Zumwalt Sidelined in Panama Following New Engineering Causality

    By: Sam LaGrone
    November 22, 2016

    USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000) is pier side following an engineering casualty the ship suffered transiting the Panama Canal, U.S. Navy officials told USNI News on Monday.

    The guided missile destroyer will undergo repairs at a former U.S. naval station until its fit to complete its journey to Naval Station San Diego, Calif., U.S. 3rd Fleet spokesman Cmdr. Ryan Perry told USNI News.

    The ship was in the midst of a southbound transit through the canal when it suffered the casualty, Under orders from U.S. 3rd Fleet commander Vice Adm. Nora Tyson, Zumwalt is now stopped for repairs at the former U.S. Naval Station Rodman, he said.

    “The timeline for repairs is being determined now, in direct coordination with Naval Sea Systems and Naval Surface Forces,” he said.
    “The schedule for the ship will remain flexible to enable testing and evaluation in order to ensure the ship’s safe transit to her new homeport in San Diego.”

    The ship lost propulsion in its port shaft during the transit and the crew saw water intrusion in both of Zumwalt’s Advanced Induction Motors (AIMs) – the massive electrical motors that are driven by the ship’s gas turbines and in turn electrically power the ship’s systems, a defense official told USNI News on Tuesday.

    Cables running to one of two Advanced Induction Motors on USS Zumwalt. USNI News Photo
    Cables running to one of two Advanced Induction Motors on USS Zumwalt. USNI News Photo

    Both of the shafts locked during the passage and the transit had to be completed with tugs. The ship made minor contact with lock walls in the canal resulting in minor cosmetic damage. Following the transit, the Navy determined the ship couldn’t continue to its new homeport at Naval Station San Diego without additional repairs.

    The latest casualty follows an incident in September following the ship’s transit from shipbuilder General Dynamics Bath Iron Works, Maine to Naval Station Norfolk, Va. in which the crew discovered “a seawater leak in the propulsion motor drive lube oil auxiliary system for one of the ship’s shafts,” the Navy told USNI News at the time.

    Following its Oct. 15 commissioning, Zumwalt suffered additional unspecified engineering trouble around the time arrived at Naval Station Mayport, Fla. and spent extra time repairing and testing the propulsion system, USNI News understands.

    Zumwalt entered the Panama Canal following a successful port visit to Colombia last week – a visit which the service intended to skip if it thought the engineering problems would continue, several defense officials told USNI News.

    The ship’s engineering plant – the Integrated Power System (IPS) – is arguably the most complex and unique in the service. Installing and testing the system — that provides ship additional power margins to power high energy weapons and sensors — was a primary reason the ship delivered months late to the service.

    Before the casualty, the ship was set to arrive in San Diego by the end of the year and start weapon system activation period before joining the fleet as an operational warship sometime in 2018.

    Zumwalt is the first of three in the $22-billion class. Michael Monsoor (DDG-1001) and Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG-1002) are currently under construction at BIW.

    https://news.usni.org/2016/11/22/uss...delined-panama

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    IPS v manpower ....

    The U.S. Navy advances with IPS provides efficiency in overall operational costs and the reduction of human error.
    While the first ships in each class are test beds for learning about a new class of ship the heartache of being broke down in the Canal has to challenge morale just a little.

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