Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

DDG-1000 News

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why does everybody hate the Zumwalt? I thought it was a quantum leap for USN. Revolutionary design, energy efficient, all quiet, cutting age weapon systems, capacity for emerging technologies aka railguns and all, what could be better :(?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
      Coming up next, how would the mighty Abrams fare against a horde of T-72s?!!! Find out after this short message from our sponsors!

      http://gfycat.com/SecondFlatAngwantibo
      People regularly ask, seriously, not facetiously...if a Tiger or Tiger II could beat an Abrams. 1v1. Not 40v1, in which the Tigers might at least be able to disable the Abrams before it kills them all.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
        People regularly ask, seriously, not facetiously...if a Tiger or Tiger II could beat an Abrams. 1v1. Not 40v1, in which the Tigers might at least be able to disable the Abrams before it kills them all.
        Seems easy enough. The M1 crew laughs itself to death...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zinja View Post
          Why does everybody hate the Zumwalt? I thought it was a quantum leap for USN. Revolutionary design, energy efficient, all quiet, cutting age weapon systems, capacity for emerging technologies aka railguns and all, what could be better :(?
          I don't hate it. I just thought a revolutionary design with so many unproven tech and concept should not be ordered in large quantities. Two or three hulls to at least test them out, verify the design, work out the bugs, maybe make some real world improvements before ordering 35 of them.
          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
            People regularly ask, seriously, not facetiously...if a Tiger or Tiger II could beat an Abrams. 1v1. Not 40v1, in which the Tigers might at least be able to disable the Abrams before it kills them all.
            Does the Tiger or Tiger II need to move? That 690hp engine will have some trouble trying to move 75 tons of steel at a useful combat speed.

            Seriously, M1's 120mm HE round could crack open a Tiger's armor just by sheer brute force of the explosion. No AP needed.

            I don't agree with Belton Cooper often, but he said something right, "Germans built monuments; we built weapons."
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Zinja View Post
              Why does everybody hate the Zumwalt? I thought it was a quantum leap for USN. Revolutionary design, energy efficient, all quiet, cutting age weapon systems, capacity for emerging technologies aka railguns and all, what could be better :(?
              People hate because it's a serious departure from it's predecessors and change sucks (at least until it becomes the status quo and something newer comes along) because it is a boatload of money being spent on unproven technologies that many feel should have been spent else where, because it doesn't have a robust AAW capability, because it doesn't have a robust ASW capability, because it was used to justify the retirement of the battleships, because the Spruances were all scrapped to protect it, and mostly because it has been cut back so much from it's original intent that people feel oversold and underdelivered.

              The best thing is that these ships will probably serve more as operational test platforms for some of these technologies and even if the class itself isn't very successful, the lessons learned may be incorporated into newer classes of warships. They utilize a lot of automated systems and manpower is going to be critical in the future as the cost of training and caring for personnel from bootcamp through retirement is going to continue to rise and the cost of maintaining and operating a large fleet is going to rise with it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                I don't agree with Belton Cooper often, but he said something right, "Germans built monuments; we built weapons."
                Bit of an exageration, I think. German tanks were very good, per se; afaik, no Tiger II was ever killed in tank v tank combat. The problem was the industrial part of the whole thing that sucked. Every one of them was too complicated for mass production. The germans did try to improve that part, but far too late...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                  Bit of an exageration, I think. German tanks were very good, per se; afaik, no Tiger II was ever killed in tank v tank combat. The problem was the industrial part of the whole thing that sucked. Every one of them was too complicated for mass production. The germans did try to improve that part, but far too late...
                  The best German tank in WW2 was Panzer IV.

                  No Tiger II was killed in combat with another tank because they could never make it to the front line. It was a giant pill box with a powerful gun that sometimes moved on its own. The frontline came to them. And then Americans just called in massive artillery if the Tiger II offered any resistance.

                  Tanks rarely fought other tanks. Tanks were, and are part of a combined force used to help the infantry to take ground. Wehrmacht achieved its greatest success using Panzer IIIs, Pz 35(t)s, and Pz 38(t)s. All 3 were totally outmatched by their opponents in every possible category, except one: tactics.

                  Wehrmacht started to lose when they drifted away from maneuver warfare.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    The best German tank in WW2 was Panzer IV.
                    That I'll agree. The venerable IV lasted the whole war and even fought in Syria. Great tank.

                    The Zumwalt is the USN's Tiger II: massive beast, expensive, takes up resources & money of multiple ships, high risk!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                      I don't hate it. I just thought a revolutionary design with so many unproven tech and concept should not be ordered in large quantities. Two or three hulls to at least test them out, verify the design, work out the bugs, maybe make some real world improvements before ordering 35 of them.
                      They are only going to build 3 of them now, I thought?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                        Bit of an exageration, I think. German tanks were very good, per se; afaik, no Tiger II was ever killed in tank v tank combat. The problem was the industrial part of the whole thing that sucked. Every one of them was too complicated for mass production. The germans did try to improve that part, but far too late...
                        Pretty sure that's not true. Almost positive they faced Soviet T-34's and lost some.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
                          They are only going to build 3 of them now, I thought?
                          Yep, cause who needs 35 battleships?...

                          Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
                          Pretty sure that's not true. Almost positive they faced Soviet T-34's and lost some.
                          ?!?! never read that... got any refences? I've read of damage by IS-2, and arty kills, but never anything relating T-34...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                            Yep, cause who needs 35 battleships?...


                            ?!?! never read that... got any refences? I've read of damage by IS-2, and arty kills, but never anything relating T-34...
                            Might have been the Tiger 1. I do remember reading about a Sherman with the 76mm that holed and killed a Tiger 2, though. They lost lots of them, and certainly tanks and tank destroyers were the main killers.
                            Now, their kill/death ratio was really high....but they still got killed, and killed by other tanks.

                            I did find this quote from a guy who did an analysis of the Tiger tanks. He is an unabashed German equipment fanboy, but his analysis did include this:

                            • In Dec 1944, in a forest in France, 1 King Tiger met 2 Sherman 76mm. The Tiger fired first and destroyed 1 Sherman, but in the mean time, the second Sherman scored 2 penetrating hits, which set the Tiger aflame. The engagement was fought at about 500m and the shells penetrated the lateral turret armor.
                            [Schneider, Jentz, Fprado.com, achtungpanzer.com ]
                            I suppose his source for that is in those sites in the quote.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pacfanweb View Post
                              They are only going to build 3 of them now, I thought?
                              Planned: 32

                              Cancelled: 29
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Zinja View Post
                                Why does everybody hate the Zumwalt? I thought it was a quantum leap for USN. Revolutionary design, energy efficient, all quiet, cutting age weapon systems, capacity for emerging technologies aka railguns and all, what could be better :(?
                                I think it'll be great as a technology demonstrator. Hopefully they will lead to a sizable follow on class of ships after the Zumwalts get put through their paces.

                                Essentially, the Zumwalts fell victim to politics. Congress didn't want the navy to retire the battleships without a replacement for shore bombardment duties. The navy didn't like big manpower and part intensive ships from the 1940s cutting a swath through their budgets.

                                The Zumwalts were the compromise. Lots of new tech and radical designs in a huge destroyer designed to provide naval fire support.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X