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Philippines, China Naval Standoff Enters Third Day

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  • #46
    if China, Japan and India can work together, I have a tough time believing that there can't not be a join patrol for illegal fishery


    Anti-piracy bid: South Korea joins India, Japan, China

    Anti-piracy bid: South Korea joins India, Japan, China - The Times of India

    NEW DELHI: South Korea is now all set to join the India-China-Japan combine's coordinated naval patrols and escort of merchant vessels through the piracy-infested Gulf of Aden.


    Sources say South Korea is likely to join the "third cycle" of the "escort and convoy coordination" plan that will be set in motion in July. Under the tri-lateral arrangement worked out among India, China and Japan, their navies have been coordinating to strengthen anti-piracy efforts in the Gulf of Aden since January.


    Under the first cycle, the Chinese Navy was the "lead" or "reference" force for three months, with the Indian and Japanese navies chipping in to plug the gaps. In the second cycle launched in April, India is currently the primary naval force in the tri-lateral arrangement in the Gulf of Aden under which stealth frigate INS Tabar is leading from the front.


    In all, since October 2008, Indian warships have ensured the safe passage of close to 2,000 vessels from around 50 countries through the strategic trade-route of the Gulf of Aden. With the pirates now also operating around 1,100 nautical miles away from Somalia's coast in the Arabian Sea, the Navy and Coast Guard have actively thwarted many pirate attacks on merchant vessels near Indian shores too.
    Last edited by xinhui; 13 Jun 12,, 17:30.
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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    • #47
      India Navy in China.

      Photos of IN makes port call in Shanghai today.

      A Rajput class guided missile destroyer Rana, a stealth frigate Shivalik, Karmuk, a Kora class Corvettes and INS Shakti, a fleet tanker with about 1400 sailors are current hanging out in Shanghai. They are being hosted by a Type054 FFG.
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      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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      • #48
        Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
        The fact that it has been in our strategic interest for over a century is a good enough reason in my book.
        it might be good reason for you, but certainlly not everyone think this way. I'm an american just like you, this remind me of the merge we have going on in our department. non of the party like the idea of merging because each party has to give up something. however the merge is going to happen anyway, and the only thing we can do is accommodate with the other party. No one is gonna get 100% what they want, so the merge is full of compromises.

        because china is a raising power is going to assert its influence in asia whether we like it or not. thats why we have to work with them and make different compromise. both country has a red line that neither should cross, because result could be catastrophic.

        Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
        So are you saying the only claiming right is going to be might makes right since you discounted all the others?.
        i'm not saying might is right or china should claim the SCS, because i don't think any party has sole right to SCS.
        i'm asking what make vietnam, malasia, philippine claim more legit than china's claim.

        Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
        What seems to be their M.O. is in Africa we dangle the carrot in the form of aid and money. Makes sense since Africa is too far from home. In the South China Sea we wag the stick instead instead of dangle the carrot since this region is within out rapidly expanding Navy and so we don't need to spend money here to these nuisance countries. Calling it the way I see them playing their hand at the moment since they want only unilateral (translate: intimidate) negotiations.



        Commercial only? I guess so given other previous examples.?.
        well we don't have alot interest in africa like we do in middle east or asia. china approach has always been carrot and a stick. it hasn't use military force yet, our presence over there is to deter them from using force, but we cant expect we will have the same influence/power in that region like before when china was a poor nation.
        Last edited by weaponww; 13 Jun 12,, 16:28.

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        • #49
          Calling China's African ventures carrot dangling for natural resources is an oversimplification of the situation on the ground. China is actually having a roller-coaster ride in Africa. On the outside it seems all of the Dark Continent is bowing to the Asian dragon, but the stories of people's lives changed--for better or for worse--tell of a much different China in Africa story than the Western press would have you believe.

          For a more nuanced view of China's African enterprises, read China in Africa: The Real Story, it's the website of Deborah Brautigam, a professor of Int'l Studies at American University. She's been to Africa more times than she's cared to count, and has written an excellent book: The Dragon's Gift: The Real Story of China in Africa.

          Anyway, I'm digressing already.

          China I think would do better to elevate the status of the Ministries of Defense and Foreign Affairs. These 2 are the most active in talking to other nations, and yet the important decisions remain to be in the hands of an opaque power structure inside the State Council and the Central Military Commission. Def. Min. Liang Guanglie is almost a figurehead if you look at the military power structure.

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          • #50
            Well its been what, 5 months now? Chinese ships are still there and the shoal has been blocked off.

            3 Chinese vessels still at Scarborough Shoal, says DFA | Inquirer Global Nation

            Sounds for all purposes like the shoal has been ceded to the Chinese for an indeterminate amount of time. The Philippines is never going to have the military muscle to push the Chinese out by force if push came to shove, but after China broke its word on removing ships, i'd have thought some showing at least outside the shoal would have been called for.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by diablo49 View Post
              Sounds for all purposes like the shoal has been ceded to the Chinese for an indeterminate amount of time. The Philippines is never going to have the military muscle to push the Chinese out by force if push came to shove, but after China broke its word on removing ships, i'd have thought some showing at least outside the shoal would have been called for.
              Any vessel with around more than 500-ton displacement can be used as "weapon" to block, push, ram. The key of this kind of confrontation is not military might but the will of a nation and her people to fight. From my POV, Philippines had already lost the shoal at the moment they decided to back off first and hoped China would do the same.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by hanswu25 View Post
                Any vessel with around more than 500-ton displacement can be used as "weapon" to block, push, ram. The key of this kind of confrontation is not military might but the will of a nation and her people to fight. From my POV, Philippines had already lost the shoal at the moment they decided to back off first and hoped China would do the same.

                Yep, the Philippines should have forced the issue. Send out their fishing boats and force China to either ram or fire on one when in unison when they refused to turn around. Then they would have had the good P.R. But, knowing the Philippines, they are not confrontational and as such will always loose out on the international stage.

                Just noticed Defense is discussing what to do about a rope??? How about showing some balls and cutting the damn line!
                Last edited by tbm3fan; 30 Aug 12,, 21:07.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by hanswu25 View Post
                  Any vessel with around more than 500-ton displacement can be used as "weapon" to block, push, ram. The key of this kind of confrontation is not military might but the will of a nation and her people to fight. From my POV, Philippines had already lost the shoal at the moment they decided to back off first and hoped China would do the same.
                  Agreed, if the public doesn't care enough for the politicians to be willing to do something, it is only natural sovereignty of the shoal will be lost.

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                  • #54
                    Philippine military power is a joke compare to China, Philippines are never a brave nation, they enjoyed be ruled and torture by Spain, USA and Japanese by turns. How they dare to challenge a giant like China.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by udake View Post
                      Philippine military power is a joke compare to China, Philippines are never a brave nation, they enjoyed be ruled and torture by Spain, USA and Japanese by turns. How they dare to challenge a giant like China.
                      China was ruled by "barbarians" for a cumulative almost 400 years. It was also dominated by foreign intervention for the majority of the 19th century and has suffered civil unrest that dwarfs most conventional conflicts. Some bravery. And how dare China stand up to the military giants of the entirety of the Western powers and Japan during the Boxer Incident? What a pathetic, coward country.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by udake View Post
                        Philippine military power is a joke compare to China, Philippines are never a brave nation, they enjoyed be ruled and torture by Spain, USA and Japanese by turns. How they dare to challenge a giant like China.
                        Ooo, an attitude. Maybe I will have to stand in their place to challenge that damn giant and maybe throw you in for the fun of it.

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                        • #57
                          I am very welcome you to challenge China if you don't afraid to dead.
                          I must remind you,China's had built ships of 68 million tons in 2011, If necessary, China can expand his navy powers 3-4 times in a short times.

                          I don't know yor are a USA citizen, or just a foreigner who temporary inhabit in America.
                          But American leader claim" China and USA relationship are the most important relationship in the world",that is a fact!
                          So now we kick the ass of Japan and Filipino, in the Diaoyu Islands and Huangyan Island conflict!
                          So what? Japan and Filipino both are ally with USA,But USA declear "keep neutral position in the Diaoyu Islands and Huangyan Island conflict! They will not partial anyone."
                          Don't forget Japan are the most important ally in of USA in Asia! Because USA draw a red line: "They never challenge a huge nuclear arm!"

                          Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                          Ooo, an attitude. Maybe I will have to stand in their place to challenge that damn giant and maybe throw you in for the fun of it.

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                          • #58
                            Ha,ha, you believe China is a coward country,so why dare you encourage your brave countires attack the cowardly Chinese? But I think you don't believe how many enemy the Chinese had killed in the world war2, in Korea, in Vietnam.

                            Originally posted by ace16807 View Post
                            China was ruled by "barbarians" for a cumulative almost 400 years. It was also dominated by foreign intervention for the majority of the 19th century and has suffered civil unrest that dwarfs most conventional conflicts. Some bravery. And how dare China stand up to the military giants of the entirety of the Western powers and Japan during the Boxer Incident? What a pathetic, coward country.

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                            • #59
                              Sorry,correct! "so why you dare not encourage your brave countires attack the cowardly Chinese?


                              Originally posted by udake View Post
                              Ha,ha, you believe China is a coward country,so why dare you encourage your brave countires attack the cowardly Chinese? But I think you don't believe how many enemy the Chinese had killed in the world war2, in Korea, in Vietnam.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by udake View Post
                                I am very welcome you to challenge China if you don't afraid to dead.
                                I must remind you,China's had built ships of 68 million tons in 2011, If necessary, China can expand his navy powers 3-4 times in a short times.
                                No, she can't.

                                1) She doesn't have the money.
                                2) She doesn't have the dry docks.
                                3) She doesn't have enough trained men.
                                4) She doesn't have enough fuel.

                                Originally posted by udake View Post
                                So now we kick the ass of Japan and Filipino, in the Diaoyu Islands and Huangyan Island conflict!
                                Chasing a few fishing boats is kicking ass?

                                Originally posted by udake View Post
                                Because USA draw a red line: "They never challenge a huge nuclear arm!"
                                According to the Chinese, they are the smallest of the Nuclear Five powers. 200-300 nukes is not huge when compared to 20,000.

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