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Best warriors of the ancient ara?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by zraver View Post
    Spartans don't count lol
    Every tribe started training kids for hunting and battle when they were about 7 years old,sometimes even sooner.The Spartans were only unique because they took the children from their families and put them in barracks.

    You sirs may run all the way.My religion asks me and 5 fellows,with a dozen long and sturdy spears,to stand our ground(preferably the favorable sort).
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      You sirs may run all the way.My religion asks me and 5 fellows,with a dozen long and sturdy spears,to stand our ground(preferably the favorable sort).
      6 guys with some pointy sticks standing between a cave bear and his honey marinated lunch that is running away ... I'll bet on the bear.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        *** sigh *** Youth and enthusiasm is no match for experience and treachery. I don't have to run after I marinate ... I mean accidentally spill some honey on you.
        By the time the honey is out of your pack I'm in a different zip code and Mr Pooh Bear is there.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
          Every tribe started training kids for hunting and battle when they were about 7 years old,sometimes even sooner.The Spartans were only unique because they took the children from their families and put them in barracks.

          You sirs may run all the way.My religion asks me and 5 fellows,with a dozen long and sturdy spears,to stand our ground(preferably the favorable sort).
          The Spartans took it quite a bit farther than merely putting them in barracks- punishment for getting caught stealing (not for stealing), bareassed wilderness survival, hand to hand, weapons, stalking and complete desensitizing to the horror of death.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Mihais View Post
            Every tribe started training kids for hunting and battle when they were about 7 years old,sometimes even sooner.The Spartans were only unique because they took the children from their families and put them in barracks.

            You sirs may run all the way.My religion asks me and 5 fellows,with a dozen long and sturdy spears,to stand our ground(preferably the favorable sort).
            The Spartans took it quite a bit farther than merely putting them in barracks- punishment for getting caught stealing (not for stealing), bareassed wilderness survival, hand to hand, weapons, stalking and complete desensitizing to the horror of death.

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            • #66
              Well,that's what people living in barracks busy themselves with.But just for that doesn't mean the rest didn't hardened their young.The Thracians,Celts,Germans,Mongols etc... as well as the tribes in the pre-history may have not put an emphasis on fighting in the phalanx.But otherwise their training regime was just as harsh.Look at what the young Indians had to go through to become one of the braves.
              Life was shorter and harsher,but much more funnier back then.
              Those who know don't speak
              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                Well,that's what people living in barracks busy themselves with.But just for that doesn't mean the rest didn't hardened their young.The Thracians,Celts,Germans,Mongols etc... as well as the tribes in the pre-history may have not put an emphasis on fighting in the phalanx.But otherwise their training regime was just as harsh.Look at what the young Indians had to go through to become one of the braves.
                Life was shorter and harsher,but much more funnier back then.
                Uhm no, Spartan training was not about the phalanx, not until the joined a mess. It was very much about a warrior ethos that prized individual ability that could then be melded into the whole. Spartan's did not become men until age 30, where as most cultures by 15 men were boys. Even assuming the 8 years a normal barbarian got was as good as the Spartans, the Spartans add another decade and a half on top of that.

                Agoge
                begin age 7
                age 12- reduced to 1 piece of clothing a year (red cloak), sleep on beds of reeds pulled by hand, underfed, assigned a pedagogic and often pederastic mentor.
                Age 18- reserve members of army
                age 20- junior members of the army, able to join the honor guard and join a mess
                Age 30- if accepted into a mess they became full citizens and could marry.

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                • #68
                  I know you enjoy contradiction for the sake of it,but the Spartan trainee practiced phalanx combat before he joined the mess.Not only practiced,but since age 20 he did that for real,if need be.That he was not accepted socially,or beter said that his rite of passage occured later is another thing.Ancient Israelites,IIRC,had similarly allowed men to marry at age 30,while Zulus allowed men to marry at 40.Until then,the society,which in Sparta means the army,owns your a$$ 110%.Who was tougher is subjective to fanboyism and as such is pointless to argue a Macedonian hypapist was ''tougher'' than a Spanish conquistador or a mamooth hunter.
                  The fact that the Spartiate did ALL the rest is what differentiated Spartan youth from the rest of the Greeks and definetely helped with initiative on the battlefield,in itself a vital thing.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                    I know you enjoy contradiction for the sake of it,but the Spartan trainee practiced phalanx combat before he joined the mess.Not only practiced,but since age 20 he did that for real,if need be.That he was not accepted socially,or beter said that his rite of passage occured later is another thing.Ancient Israelites,IIRC,had similarly allowed men to marry at age 30,while Zulus allowed men to marry at 40.Until then,the society,which in Sparta means the army,owns your a$$ 110%.Who was tougher is subjective to fanboyism and as such is pointless to argue a Macedonian hypapist was ''tougher'' than a Spanish conquistador or a mamooth hunter.
                    The fact that the Spartiate did ALL the rest is what differentiated Spartan youth from the rest of the Greeks and definetely helped with initiative on the battlefield,in itself a vital thing.
                    Was the institutionalized pederasty found within these training environments solely unique to the Spartan regimen?
                    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Wayfarer View Post
                      Was the institutionalized pederasty found within these training environments solely unique to the Spartan regimen?
                      No, pederasty was pretty common among Western cultures (maybe others) and didn't really begin to to die out until the industrial revolution replaced the craftsman system that relied on apprenticeship with wage slaves combined with child labor laws. The Spartans translated it openly to the military but they were likely not the only ones to do so.

                      For Example, Xenophon sent his sons to be raised and trained as Spartans, and he was Athenian. This implies a certain level of comfort with the status quo.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Jim Ray View Post
                        Anyone know any good warriors of the ancient era? My pick is onn the spartans but I dont want to stick with that opinion if there were better fighters out there
                        Judging by the time of existence of the respective ancient cultures, my pick is the Egyptians. Located in a hostile environment, they managed to preserve their state, religion, and culture for almost three thousand years.
                        As for the Spartans, the Macedonians, and many more other quickies, what is the meaning of grand conquering if you can't hold and manage the conquered?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by andrew View Post
                          Judging by the time of existence of the respective ancient cultures, my pick is the Egyptians. Located in a hostile environment, they managed to preserve their state, religion, and culture for almost three thousand years.
                          As for the Spartans, the Macedonians, and many more other quickies, what is the meaning of grand conquering if you can't hold and manage the conquered?
                          Which group of Egyptians are you talking about? The fairer skinned lower Egyptians, the Nubian like upper Egyptians, the Pharaoh's under the Hyskos or Persians, the Ptolemis, the Romans, Christians, Arabs, Mamluks, British or the modern Egyptians?.... Egyptian culture was an over culture for a long time, but it was rarely dominant and was often forced to digest the influences of what ever group was on the throne.

                          Welsh culture has survived remarkably intact as well and Welsh and proto-welsh as a distinct form of British from at least 500 B.C.

                          Linquistically however nothing in the West holds a candle to Greek- 34 centuries and counting of written history.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by andrew View Post
                            Judging by the time of existence of the respective ancient cultures, my pick is the Egyptians. Located in a hostile environment, they managed to preserve their state, religion, and culture for almost three thousand years.
                            As for the Spartans, the Macedonians, and many more other quickies, what is the meaning of grand conquering if you can't hold and manage the conquered?
                            Going by the same logic, we held out quite a bit more longer and preserved the oldies.
                            sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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                            • #74
                              Mihais,
                              You might be interested to learn that Spartan "graduation" consists of turning the young warriors loose in the countryside. They will live off the land of their serfs by any means necessary and some historians believe that they also need to come home with a confirmed kill of a serf. Some one that looked like a leader.
                              All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                              -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                                Mihais,
                                You might be interested to learn that Spartan "graduation" consists of turning the young warriors loose in the countryside. They will live off the land of their serfs by any means necessary and some historians believe that they also need to come home with a confirmed kill of a serf. Some one that looked like a leader.
                                Not long ago ...like when I was in the 5th grade it was prety much what the history manual said . :)
                                J'ai en marre.

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