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Indian Artillery Modernisation - The Saga Continues

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  • Indian Artillery Modernisation - The Saga Continues

    6 Firms "Blacklisted" for 10 Years!!!!

    "Six defence firms, including four from abroad, were Monday banned from doing business with ordnance factories in India for the next 10 years for their alleged links to a graft case involving a former Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) chief.

    Singapore Technologies Kinetics (STK), Israeli Military Industries (IMI), Germany's Rheinmetall Air Defence and Corporation Defence Russia, as also two Indian firms, were debarred from dealing with the OFB (rpt OFB) of the department of defence production under the defence ministry."

    Link to whole story : India bans six defence firms for 10 years

    But what does this actualy mean!!! Note it only says barred from doing business with the Indian Ordnance Factories, can the rest of the GOI still do business with these companies?

    Regards

    Arty
    "Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations".- Motto of the Gun Crew who have just done something incredibly stupid!!!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by ArtyEngineer View Post
    But what does this actualy mean!!! Note it only says barred from doing business with the Indian Ordnance Factories, can the rest of the GOI still do business with these companies?

    Regards

    Arty
    Looks like aonly IOF will not do business with them.

    The list includes IMI, and we do tons of business with them and cannot do without them.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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    • #3
      AK "Mr. Clean" Antony is gumming up the procurement works again. At this rate we will have no more suppliers left !!!
      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ArtyEngineer View Post
        But what does this actualy mean!!! Note it only says barred from doing business with the Indian Ordnance Factories, can the rest of the GOI still do business with these companies?

        Regards

        Arty
        No, because the Ordnance Factory Board falls under the Ministry of Defence so this blacklisting means that the MoD will likely not be doing business with any of these companies.

        Basically, none of the above listed companies (along with Bofors and Denel blacklisted earlier) will be able to bid for any defence contracts in India for the next 10 years.
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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        • #5
          Originally posted by lemontree View Post
          Looks like aonly IOF will not do business with them.
          LT, OFB is a wing of the MoD, and being tagged for corruption in deals with the OFB more or less equals being tagged for corruption in deals with the MoD.

          All departments of the MoD will likely not do business with them.

          The list includes IMI, and we do tons of business with them and cannot do without them.
          More than the Indian military, it is the IMI which has gotten hit harder. India was their largest customer, and this blacklisting means a major blow for them.

          IMI is planning to appeal the decision: India blacklists Israel Military Industries for 10 years - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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          • #6
            Originally posted by antimony View Post
            AK "Mr. Clean" Antony is gumming up the procurement works again. At this rate we will have no more suppliers left !!!
            I guess that means we will have to just shop DRDO.
            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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            • #7
              Maybe India can go back to making 25pdrs?...

              Comment


              • #8
                What absolute idiotic dumbasses. They put themselves ahead of the good of the nation. Were they so oblivious to the laws? Or the fact how badly they would hurt the defense of India by their actions!?!?!

                Hang the bastards.

                God, I hate corruption in public officials.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  Wow, corruption in Defence deals, this is is something that I have never heard of
                  If the Indians applied such exacting standards to their politicians, the country would surpass China. BTW both STI and IMI make quality weapons and banning them would only hurt India considering the sterling performance of DRDO and other Indian organizations , good luck
                  Seek Save Serve Medic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    What absolute idiotic dumbasses. They put themselves ahead of the good of the nation. Were they so oblivious to the laws? Or the fact how badly they would hurt the defense of India by their actions!?!?!

                    Hang the bastards.

                    God, I hate corruption in public officials.
                    Oh I wish I had such authority to do that. But I do not understand the ban. The ban will only hurt India tremendously.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This ban is beneficial in the long run, as long as we now hand the contract to companies not on the list.

                      It is only harmful if we wait another 10 years only to hand the same contracts to these companies again.

                      Best guns or not, corruption should not be overlooked in defence by any means.

                      Just because we got lucky with the Bofors, does not mean that tomorrow hands would not be greased to spend more public money on inferior systems!

                      This ban, however bitter, is only beneficial in the long run.
                      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                        This ban is beneficial in the long run, as long as we now hand the contract to companies not on the list.

                        It is only harmful if we wait another 10 years only to hand the same contracts to these companies again.

                        Best guns or not, corruption should not be overlooked in defence by any means.

                        Just because we got lucky with the Bofors, does not mean that tomorrow hands would not be greased to spend more public money on inferior systems!

                        This ban, however bitter, is only beneficial in the long run.
                        IA has been waiting for nearly 30 years to get more artillery. Now we have to wait another goddamn 10 years to get the necessary guns. For the next 10 years, IA will be seriously outgunned by PA, a situation that is so lamentable considering it's so easy to fix it. Just blacklist specific individuals and slap charges or fines and move one already!!! I would be more happy to impose fines than ban them outright because the companies know if they want to do further business, they need to pay up the fines and play ball.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Only Chinese and Pakistani artillery are left to be blacklisted. I think China and Pakistan should try their luck. IA would be glad to buy some.

                          Regarding the blacklisting. If IMI is smart there are ways around. You sell hardware through a Indian company. Like the Swedish Bofors( which started it all). They are officially banned, however came to know India is their current largest customer! They selling gun parts through OFB, using BAE's name!

                          The ban is on IMI. Not for example Tata's selling IMI products!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                            What absolute idiotic dumbasses. They put themselves ahead of the good of the nation. Were they so oblivious to the laws? Or the fact how badly they would hurt the defense of India by their actions!?!?!

                            Hang the bastards.

                            God, I hate corruption in public officials.
                            India has a weird problem. Deals dont get signed until some pockets the money. MOD officals dont sign the deal, fearing they will be caught in corruption scandal.

                            The one who takes the money is actually brave enough to sign the deal! and as a responsibility towards his "donor".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                              This ban is beneficial in the long run, as long as we now hand the contract to companies not on the list.

                              It is only harmful if we wait another 10 years only to hand the same contracts to these companies again.

                              Best guns or not, corruption should not be overlooked in defence by any means.

                              Just because we got lucky with the Bofors, does not mean that tomorrow hands would not be greased to spend more public money on inferior systems!

                              This ban, however bitter, is only beneficial in the long run.
                              Tronic,

                              The Guns...
                              The Guns more than anything else right now. It matters a hell lot than most people think. The God of war is required not only during full blown wars, we require them Guns even without war. The rascals in those public offices should be stripped, however it seems that the government wants to strip the military first of their most required hardware.
                              Last edited by Deltacamelately; 25 Apr 12,, 10:11.
                              sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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