Originally posted by Captain Worley
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Pocket battleships or U-boats?
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Originally posted by Stitch View PostEventually, they did, but it was too late in the War to make a difference; look at the Type XXIII. Basically, a "modern" submarine, but too late and too little to make a difference. Doenitz was ALWAYS complaining about a lack of resources for the U-boot fleet, right up until the end of the War; IMO, if they had taken all of the resources they wasted on the Tirpitz and the Prince Eugen and the Bismark and the Graf Spee and used them on the U-boot fleet, Germany would've won the War of the Atlantic.
Type XXIII Elektro boats - U-boat Types - German U-boats of WWII - Kriegsmarine - uboat.net
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Originally posted by 1979 View PostHow about going after capital ships with u-boats ?
the Germans managed to sink some carriers and battleships early in the war .
The US and Germany were both contending with a foe located on an island nation (and Russia might as well have been an island). Starve them and they have lost.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by 1979 View PostInvasion of the british islands.
Irc the British started the war with 15 capital ships and 7 carriers.
Sea Lion vs. Overlord“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Submarines for sure.
If there was one thing the German's could have done to win the war it was to have introduce the XXI boats from the start.
All the technology was there pre-war. 30 XXIs let loose in 1939 would have been devastating. The allies would have countered earlier for sure but the technology for counter measures against a dedicated submarine (as opposed to a diving torpedoe/gun boat) would require vastly more rescourses that were not available early war.
Germany building capitol ships to fight the British fell straight into the Royal Navy's hands. It let the British do what their fleet was designed for.
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Originally posted by Captain Worley View PostIf Hitler had deployed the pocket battleships effectively as commerce raiders, would they have been more or less effective than the U-boats. Seems to me the U-boats were better from a benefit of cost effectiveness.
As the USN did to Japan later in the war, find the fuel and destroy their way of refueling, not only does that limit range but also escape ability and keeps them in port.Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
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Originally posted by TopHatter View PostThe Germans were not invading anything that involved more than a river crossing.
Sea Lion vs. OverlordJ'ai en marre.
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Originally posted by 1979 View PostAccording to the link you posted they executed at least one invasion (Crete) that involved more than a river crossing.Originally posted by zraver View Post2- Crete and Norway.
Crete was not amphibious and it tore the heart out of the Fallschirmjäger unit that was dropped in. The Luftwaffe also suffered heavily, 284 aircraft destroyed hundreds of crews killed. But for Allied mistakes, Crete could have been an even bigger Pyrrhic victory than it was.
Norway's armed forces were only partially mobilized, and the German amphibious force was chopped to pieces.
My point is, an invasion of Britain was doomed from the start.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by TopHatter View PostI stand corrected but both examples are problematic.
Crete was not amphibious and it tore the heart out of the Fallschirmjäger unit that was dropped in. The Luftwaffe also suffered heavily, 284 aircraft destroyed hundreds of crews killed. But for Allied mistakes, Crete could have been an even bigger Pyrrhic victory than it was.
Norway's armed forces were only partially mobilized, and the German amphibious force was chopped to pieces.
My point is, an invasion of Britain was doomed from the start.
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Originally posted by zraver View Postboth German efforts were exercises in what not to do, but they both existed, that is all I was pointing out.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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the British could have deployed 27 divisions " theoretically " to defend their home islands
I say theoretically because more than half of them would be simply men with rifles.
there was a chronically shortage of machine guns, light AAA, antitank guns, artillery .
British Equipment losses at Dunkirk and the situation post DunkirkJ'ai en marre.
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Originally posted by 1979 View Postthe British could have deployed 27 divisions " theoretically " to defend their home islands
I say theoretically because more than half of them would be simply men with rifles.
there was a chronically shortage of machine guns, light AAA, antitank guns, artillery .
British Equipment losses at Dunkirk and the situation post Dunkirk
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