Marine Corps Insists Marines Are Too Dumb to Know This Is a Nazi Flag

[Dreadnought]

Well, I guess if everyone thinks that Gils sans looks just like Arial black then their flag does look like some versions of a Schutzstaffel logo. Apart form the color of course. And the angle of layout. And the Font. Are we to ban all angular fonts?

Thank You Pari, As mentioned prior the media are deserving of the Golden Globe for creativity.

[FJV]

Would not be suprised if they knew damn well what it was.

Still a silly distraction from real issues though.

[Albany Rifles]

Thank You Pari, As mentioned prior the media are deserving of the Golden Globe for creativity.

Dread, you still aren't getting if.

Go back and read my posts, Gun Grapes and S2's again. From a military unit, leadership and ethics perspective this is so wrong. If nothing else they are ALL in violation of Article 134 of the Unified Code of Military Justice. They are knowingly and openly displaying a known and forbidden gang symbol which is tied to white supremacy groups. They can not say they do not know. By DOD regulations there is mandatory annual training on this as well as posters displaying forbidden symbols in every barracks and training building in the US military. I see them all of the time.


As for t-shirts and crap... I used to see the same crap at just about every surplus store around Army bases. Doesn't make it right.

As for Chevy the SS stood for super sport and they made it very clear in their advertising and most models had that in stylized script on the rear fenders. The SS was on a badge front and back....and they were not runic.

But I don't give a crap about Chevy...this is the USMC. If you realize our best known Marine on the WAB has a problem with this I would think that is reason enough to recognize this is wrong.

[S2]

Mihais Reply

"Sir,the issue has several facets.One is strictly about regulations.Nazi symbols are forbidden in any form in any army..."

I know nothing of the regulations in non-American forces. I know nothing of the regulations to which A.R. alludes. It's been 21 years now since I set foot in a troop barracks or training facility. OTOH, I easily accede to A.R.'s knowledge of such. He's trustworthy and has recent experience as a DoD employee with both. So too Gun Grape, whose retirement from Marine service came following my separation from the U.S. Army. If so, as a senior NCO, he'd have intimate knowledge of these regulations down at the troop level.

"...As such they have to be obeyed.If such regulations were broken in this case it's up to the commanders and military investigators to decide..."

Obedience to those regulations is expected. Enforcement of those regulations by the chain-of-command is equally expected. In both cases I've cause for concern based upon the actions of those troops and the reaction by Camp Pendleton's P.I.O.

"...A second one is the perpetual desire for sensationalism,at any cost.Usually perpetuated by know nothings,called by the pompous name as journalist..."

Whether a know-nothing, journalist or both by name seeked to create such would be irrelevant were those marines to have conducted themselves properly. It'd be a moot issue regarding a non-event.

"...A third one is the matter of the vile symbols adopted unofficially.That war is over for almost 70 years...my family fought both alongside those symbols and against them..."

More accurately from my perspective, Romanian troops fought alongside German troops. S.S. forces may well have been present in those formations. So too their presence in German formations fighting alongside Finnish forces, as example. It is not, in my view, the same as it doesn't necessarily imply endorsement of the views espoused by the S.S.

"...There's great evil perpetrated under their shadow as well as some magnificent feats of arms,strength of character,love of country..."

I've studied closely German combat operations in W.W.II, including detailed studies of various S.S. organizations for combat. It is a separate issue but, equally, it's critical to understand that the S.S. stands apart from the Wehrmacht by virtue of its social and political conditioning. It's not simply a case of an S.S. soldier's commitment to Germany as opposed to her enemies. Specifically it's the embracing commitment of the S.S. soldier to an organization espousing views antithetical to all I hold dear.

"...and freedom(in some parts of the world,forgotten by many)..."

An S.S. soldier's view of that freedom differs dramatically from that which I know. There lies an immense gulf impossible for me to bridge.

"...I don't know if I qualify as a Westerner,but I respect bravery and skill in anyone..."

As do I, explaining why I'd consider it worth my while to study operations specifically including those units. Nonetheless, I've never, ever lost sight of the ultimate purpose behind them. S.S. troops were the ideological vanguard of Nazi fascism and, for the vast majority, proudly so.

"...I know I'm a minority but I don't see Dachau and Auschwitz in that flag,I see Cherkassy(in this particular context)."

I see marines drawing a misplaced legacy to a heinous past that has no place in U.S. armed forces.

[Mihais]

Sir,I respect your views,as well as AR's or Gunny's.

I wasted the last 10 minutes googling the issue.It seems the SS logo was used unofficially for the last 2 decades.Which,for me,it reinforces the argument this is some cheap shot by the media,while the higher-ups are in CYA mode.And that's where I'll put the matter to rest.All other issues are for the Marines to solve.Some bridges will either be crossed or blown-up.

[S2]

Mihais Reply

"...All other issues are for the Marines to solve.Some bridges will either be crossed or blown-up."

Concur. It's for the Marine Corps to work out.

[Dreadnought]

Dread, you still aren't getting if.

Go back and read my posts, Gun Grapes and S2's again. From a military unit, leadership and ethics perspective this is so wrong. If nothing else they are ALL in violation of Article 134 of the Unified Code of Military Justice. They are knowingly and openly displaying a known and forbidden gang symbol which is tied to white supremacy groups. They can not say they do not know. By DOD regulations there is mandatory annual training on this as well as posters displaying forbidden symbols in every barracks and training building in the US military. I see them all of the time.


As for t-shirts and crap... I used to see the same crap at just about every surplus store around Army bases. Doesn't make it right.

As for Chevy the SS stood for super sport and they made it very clear in their advertising and most models had that in stylized script on the rear fenders. The SS was on a badge front and back....and they were not runic.

But I don't give a crap about Chevy...this is the USMC. If you realize our best known Marine on the WAB has a problem with this I would think that is reason enough to recognize this is wrong.

Albany,
I do get it and agreed with the above posts. I stated that clearly. What I did was offer known comparrisons that exist in everyday life. I am also in the agreement of JAD and others where as this is a Marine Corps issue. I did not disagree with the Gunny. I even asked him to research the insignia since as you mentioned he is an expert. They (USMC) will deal with it. As far as the civilian media side of this goes...It was a cheap shot none the less and not even correct in their assesment of exactly what it was. Not even the script used. This is not horse shoes where close means points with the public. This was clearly a mistake and an acusation based upon incorrect identification and media hype. It was designed to shock and awe and a no doubt grab at attention. It did its job even though their assesment was incorrect as Pari made very clear in his photos of the WWII ss helmet markings.

Was it a poor choice? yes. They apoligized for it and will no doubt correct it one way or the other. As the gunny mentioned heads may or will roll. Someone will get punished.

Would the media apoligize for being incorrect about the issue? They already recieved the desired effect and made the $ and recieved the hits on their websites.

Dont hold your breath waiting. They seldomly ever do.

Just imagine the fire storm they would recieve by comparing the US Marines to Hitlers SS troops. They would want no part of it. No doubt be boycotted for even daring by the public.

The media is not required to be correct in their reporting. The Marine Corps are.

[Gun Grape]

In this case the media didn't do wrong. The PAO Major did. The Corps has known about this, and tried to stop it since at least the 1980s.

I know of one Bn Commander that disbanded his STA platoon because of it.


Maybe the Corps will put the hammer down, since its in the open now. Then the sniper community might see that the Corps is serious and get rid of this "unofficial" symbol. It might take another dose of the same "Witch hunt" that was necessary to get rid of Jump Wing/promotion Pinning On hazing.

Painful, but the Corps will be better for it.

[Albany Rifles]

Dread,

Okay I obviously missed your point.

However, in this matter, I don't care what the media had to say. Those Marines were wrong...not for getting caught but for doing it in the first place. Same with those dumb asses
who urinated on the Taliban dead.

Its not about the media reporting badly (though the PAO did nothing to advance the good if the USMC and DOD) or the morons taking the pictures/videos. It's the act which has me so pissed off. It shows a break down in good order and discipline which concerns me.

I just get really pissed of when I see such blatant breakdowns in leadership. You should have read me on Strategy Page about Abu Graib...you'd have thought I was Al Jazeera.

I'll get of my soapbox now.

[Dreadnought]

IMO,everyone needs critics. Hopefully, they will atleast be correct in their assumptions. I also agree some good will come from this.

[Dreadnought]

Dread,

Okay I obviously missed your point.

However, in this matter, I don't care what the media had to say. Those Marines were wrong...not for getting caught but for doing it in the first place. Same with those dumb asses
who urinated on the Taliban dead.

Its not about the media reporting badly (though the PAO did nothing to advance the good if the USMC and DOD) or the morons taking the pictures/videos. It's the act which has me so pissed off. It shows a break down in good order and discipline which concerns me.

I just get really pissed of when I see such blatant breakdowns in leadership. You should have read me on Strategy Page about Abu Graib...you'd have thought I was Al Jazeera.

I'll get of my soapbox now.

Not a problem Albany. I hate things like this as well as the rest of you. A necessary evil no doubt.

[ArtyEngineer]

Heres my VERY simplistic take on some of the issues we are seeing right now across both the Army and USMC with regards to discipline etc:

"Oh shit, we are in two "Wars" we dont have enough "boots" for this, quick lets grow the force + Moral Waivers = Too many goddamn worthles punk shitbirds wearing a uniform that wouldnt have got a look in 15 years ago"

Regards

Arty

[Albany Rifles]

Heres my VERY simplistic take on some of the issues we are seeing right now across both the Army and USMC with regards to discipline etc:

"Oh shit, we are in two "Wars" we dont have enough "boots" for this, quick lets grow the force + Moral Waivers = Too many goddamn worthles punk shitbirds wearing a uniform that wouldnt have got a look in 15 years ago"

Regards

Arty

Damn, skippy!

TARGET!!! CEASE FIRE!!!

[lemontree]

The reference to Waffen-SS is a very touchy subject, due to the association on the organisation with the Nazi Party. The "brand recall" of the word SS conjures images of black uniforms, skull badges and death camps.

[Officer of Engineers]

USArmy officers and a USMC GS have spoken. Theirs are the only words I nedd. Frankly, I found Maj Chapin insulting insuiating US Marines are stupid.

Mihias, as professional soldiers, we always demand the best of the best from us. I don't mean the best men from the best platoon. I do mean that we demand that anyone of us lives up to the code that we demand.

If we allow less, we are less.