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  • #31
    Originally posted by zraver View Post
    Because in the past China wasn't competing for the top spot. Even the USSR never really competed for it, when ever she looked like she was going to the US puffed up and the Soviet's backed down- over and over again. If China or the US doesn't back down it will be war.
    There will be more cooperation but conflict between china and The USA. China has integrated itself into the world system which was established by the USA. China gains much in the current world system and it is a best choose to cooperate with usa ranther then rivalry.

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    • #32
      Chinese Fascism's Global Consequences | Truthout

      Very insightful view of today's China. And a timely warning to the people outside China.

      It is too "bad" that either Hilter and Mussolini got nuclear weapons......
      Last edited by Enzo Ferrari; 23 Feb 12,, 10:23.

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      • #33
        Many people forsee that the USA and China might come to blows over Taiwan.

        It is a common topic of discussion among the consultants in many US think-tanks. Some are even advising that the US should give up their long-standing defensive commitment to Taiwan and let the island "sink or swim" by itself.

        Others are violently opposed to such rhetoric.

        However, practically speaking, how much support there would be for sending US military troops into the Taiwan Strait remains to be seen . . . . . especially when the current President in Taiwan has strong visions of eventual "reunification with the Mainland" anyway. The question that would arise is "Does the government in Taiwan consider the Mainland Chinese to be their enemies?" If not, then US military commanders could ask: "What are we fighting for???"

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        • #34
          Originally posted by qnextt View Post
          Many people forsee that the USA and China might come to blows over Taiwan.

          It is a common topic of discussion among the consultants in many US think-tanks. Some are even advising that the US should give up their long-standing defensive commitment to Taiwan and let the island "sink or swim" by itself.

          Others are violently opposed to such rhetoric.

          However, practically speaking, how much support there would be for sending US military troops into the Taiwan Strait remains to be seen . . . . . especially when the current President in Taiwan has strong visions of eventual "reunification with the Mainland" anyway. The question that would arise is "Does the government in Taiwan consider the Mainland Chinese to be their enemies?" If not, then US military commanders could ask: "What are we fighting for???"
          spammer and zero grasp of the political realities of Taiwan importance to the future balance of power. If Taiwan choose re-unification great no problem we all get out of the box for free. However if China tries to take the Island by force then the real prize isn't Taiwan but dominance of the Pacific, off shore Asian and Oceania's oil and gas resources and Asian economies namely japan and Korea along with virtual control of the straits of Malacca unless India feels froggy.

          The stakes are somewhat higher for China than the US. Failure means the death of the communist party and a loss of influence in the Pacific. Defeat for the US could actually lead to a revitalized national direction.

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          • #35
            Well, "re-unification with Mainland China" holds 0.00% attraction for the great majority of native Taiwanese, so . . . . . that doesn't appear to be a viable option.

            I hear some discussion from Taiwanese friends that Japan might actually be interested in getting Taiwan back, but I am still researching the legal details. It is a topic of discussion which apparently is eliciting some attention in Taiwanese and Japanese legal circles at present.

            I don't know how Singapore would view any such discussion . . . . . such as suggesting that Japan has "residual sovereignty" over Taiwan. (That would bring back memories of the situation of the Ryukyu Island group, under the terms of the post-war Treaty of San Francisco.)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by qnextt View Post

              I hear some discussion from Taiwanese friends that Japan might actually be interested in getting Taiwan back, but I am still researching the legal details. It is a topic of discussion which apparently is eliciting some attention in Taiwanese and Japanese legal circles at present.

              I don't know how Singapore would view any such discussion . . . . . such as suggesting that Japan has "residual sovereignty" over Taiwan. (That would bring back memories of the situation of the Ryukyu Island group, under the terms of the post-war Treaty of San Francisco.)
              So does the other quackery that your Taiwanese friends (and their presumed Japanese interlocutors) sprout include UFO riding Nazis hiding out in the center of the Earth, fluoridated water as a mind control plot by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Charles are immortal humanoid reptiles, Jews eating Gentile babies for Passover, FDR having advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack, 9/11 was an inside job, Muslims worshipping Apollyon, Barack Obama being born in Kenya, and the Vatican hiding the truth about Jesus and Mary Magdalene?

              Did I miss anything? :matrix:

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              • #37
                Swsnbn

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                  So does the other quackery that your Taiwanese friends (and their presumed Japanese interlocutors) sprout include UFO riding Nazis hiding out in the center of the Earth, fluoridated water as a mind control plot by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Charles are immortal humanoid reptiles, Jews eating Gentile babies for Passover, FDR having advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack, 9/11 was an inside job, Muslims worshipping Apollyon, Barack Obama being born in Kenya, and the Vatican hiding the truth about Jesus and Mary Magdalene?

                  Did I miss anything? :matrix:
                  Well, Chen Sui Bien did at one point claim that he was the Governor of Taiwan under American military occupation... soo...

                  International laws and treaties are basically bullshit if they can't be backed up by some sort of real force. legality argument over the SF treaty is amusing at best, they essentially turn some loopholes in the wording and use it as the basis of the entire claim, includnig that because of the holes in wording, the Taipei treaty a few years later that DID clearly state of Japan giving up Taiwan back to the ROC was not valid, talk about picking only things that suits you. :Dancing-Banana:
                  Last edited by RollingWave; 14 Mar 12,, 10:30.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by RollingWave View Post
                    . . . . . . the Taipei treaty a few years later that DID clearly state of Japan giving up Taiwan back to the ROC . . . . . . .
                    I don't recall that the fourteen articles of the Treaty of Taipei (which entered into force on Aug. 5, 1952) contained any such provision. Which article are you referring to???

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                    • #40
                      Not sure we want to go down the TI path in this thread, especially involving Treaty of San Francisco (which is meaningless)


                      back to topic.


                      Indonesian foreign minister warns against Cold War-style containment of China

                      http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...PBS_story.html

                      By Associated Press, Updated: Wednesday, March 14, 2:55 AM

                      CANBERRA, Australia — Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa warned against any Cold War-style attempt to contain China after arriving in Australia on Wednesday for foreign policy and security talks.

                      While not specifically naming China, Natalegawa told a university forum in Canberra that “the management or the containment of a rising country, we believe, would see the return of old-style Cold War power politics.”

                      0


                      “The Asia-Pacific environment would benefit from avoidance of Cold War-type competition and conflict,” Natalegawa told Canberra’s Australian National University, where he was a doctoral student.

                      Natalegawa is to take part on Thursday in the first joint meeting of Indonesian and Australian foreign and defense ministers.

                      President Barack Obama announced plans in November to send U.S. military aircraft and up to 2,500 Marines to Australia’s north for a training hub to help allies and protect American interests across Asia. The closer military ties between Australia and its most important defense ally, the United States, are seen as a reaction to China’s increasing military assertiveness in Asia.

                      Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr, who was sworn in as a senator and Cabinet minister on Tuesday, said he looked forward to wide-ranging discussions with Natalegawa and Indonesian Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro.

                      “This dialogue with our Indonesian friends and neighbors serves as an essential forum for identifying areas of future bilateral cooperation,” Carr said in a statement.

                      Defense Minister Stephen Smith said Australia and Indonesia are working to expand defense and security cooperation and bolster coordination on humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, international peacekeeping, anti-piracy efforts and maritime security.

                      Natalegawa said relations between the two countries “have never been as close as they are today.”

                      Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
                      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by qnextt View Post
                        I don't recall that the fourteen articles of the Treaty of Taipei (which entered into force on Aug. 5, 1952) contained any such provision. Which article are you referring to???
                        II, II, X essentially all say that.

                        ARTICLE II

                        It is recognized that under Article 2 of the Treaty of Peace with Japan signed at the city of San Francisco in the United States of America on September 8, 1951 (hereinafter referred to as the San Francisco Treaty), Japan has renounced all right, title and claim to Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) as well as the Spratly Islands and the Paracel Islands.

                        ARTICLE III

                        The disposition of property of Japan and of its nationals in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores), and their claims, including debts, against the authorities of the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) and the residents thereof, and the disposition in Japan of property of such authorities and residents and their claims, including debts, against Japan and its nationals, shall be the subject of special arrangements between the Government of Japan and the Government of the Republic of China. The terms nationals and residents whenever used in the present Treaty include juridical persons.

                        ARTICLE X

                        For the purposes of the present Treaty, nationals of the Republic of China shall be deemed to include all the inhabitants and former inhabitants of Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores) and their descendants who are of the Chinese nationality in accordance with the laws and regulations which have been or may hereafter be enforced by the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores); and juridical persons of the Republic of China shall be deemed to include all those registered under the laws and regulations which have been or may hereafter be enforced by the Republic of China in Taiwan (Formosa) and Penghu (the Pescadores).
                        Unless your going to argue that all the nationals of Chinese decend in Taiwan is now considered to be ROC citizens does not imply giving Taiwan back to the ROC.... that's going to be REALLY stretching it unless there's further articls / treaties later that directly state that.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by qnextt View Post
                          I don't recall that the fourteen articles of the Treaty of Taipei (which entered into force on Aug. 5, 1952) contained any such provision. Which article are you referring to???
                          qnextt,

                          Are you here to have a meaningful conversation or to air your personal, misguided, political agenda?
                          “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Begging Xinhui's pardon, but:

                            RollingWave: Some TIer back in the 1970s actually argued in a somewhat decent law journal that Article X was a temporary set up only so that the Taiwanese wouldn't become stateless and thus be unable to visit Japan!!???

                            Of course, said TI'er apparently knew nothing about the Displaced Persons travel papers that refugees in post World War II Europe got. What a ********.

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