Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[jlvfr]

Maybe. since Harris has said it then Navy might be likely

Was referring to the MMRCA program only

I doubt the F-35 will go there. The IAF stated they don't want it (so far...), and I very much doubt the US would allow it to be built in India...

[anil]

The F35 rumours had been appearing on insignificant sites for years but the most recent one was claimed by Ajai Shukla

Business Standard, 15th Feb 18

Business Standard learns the IAF top brass is formally requesting for a classified briefing by the F-35’s prime builder, Lockheed Martin, on the capabilities of the sophisticated, fifth-generation fighter developed under the US Joint Strike Fighter programme.

Unlike previously, after Ajay shukla carried it, the claim was picked up by other mainstream defence observers and grew bigger. That forced the indian air force chief to make the following statement:

Indian Express, March 1, 2018

“We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.

------------------

Indian military says it needs 42 squadrons. Indian airforce has committed to 342 tejas crafts (40 mk1 + 83 mk1a + 201 mk2) which is 18 squadrons. That leaves 18 squadrons for others.

Su30 15 squadrons. 2 rafale squads. mig29, jaguars, mirage2000, the upcoming twin engine fighter RFI, the su57, the amca... it doesn't make sense.

[Double Edge]

I doubt the F-35 will go there. The IAF stated they don't want it (so far...), and I very much doubt the US would allow it to be built in India...

Right, so its out of the question and this was known earlier

F-35s are not the right choice for India’s defence | HT (op-ed) | Mar 12 2018

The United States-produced F-35 stealth fighter seems to be the flavour of the moment in Delhi. Much of this has to do with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge campaign on since 2011 when it was reported that the US had offered a fixed price contract for the F-35A basic variant. Washington, at that point, swiftly dismissed rumours stating that the F-35 was not on the table right now. In private, top officials have been much more forthright giving us an emphatic “no.... there is a lot that needs to happen in the relationship before that conversation”. Surprisingly, more daydreaming by the air force has made manufacturer Lockheed Martin claim again that the F-35 is available to India, contrary to facts reinforced by official US government denials. This begs three questions:

what are the operational impediments of the F-35?

What are the associated costs?

and what are the political sensitivities?

Operationally, the stealth tag merely makes it a great tactical fighter, while the real punch comes from the 5th generation tag, making it a node in a highly networked system of systems.

An inexact analogy is the iPhone X — it’s got great call quality, stunning visual, excellent camera, but imagine if it couldn’t interface with Gmail, Twitter, Paytm, Uber, or connect to Wi-Fi or 4G. In the F-35’s case not only is it unable to refuel from our current generation of tanker aircraft, it also cannot interface with India’s Integrated Air Command & Control System (IACCS) comprising ground and airborne radars, with customised data-links. Additionally the level of customisation for its target discrimination system that allows it to tell friend from foe, would have to be replaced completely as would all radio communications equipment. Logistically, almost none of our current weapons would be compatible with the F-35, meaning investing vast amounts in new air-to-air, ground and sea munitions, further complicating our already shambolic logistics.

But the real killer is control: India will not have control over anything on this plane — not the weapons, not the integration of new weapons, not even upgrading the threat database for the electronic warfare systems to jam forcing India to share our most sensitive signals intelligence with the US.

This brings us to the critical issue of cost. Why would something as simple as buying a new plane mean that our entire extant communications, logistics, equipment and infrastructure have to be changed? Technologically-speaking, again an Apple analogy. If you desperately want a seamless Apple experience with your iPhone X, you have to buy a Macbook and an iPad. The F-35 is such an incredibly integrated platform that changing its sensors would be like asking Apple to manufacture an iPhoneX just for you — with a Google pixel camera, a Samsung galaxy OLED screen and a Nokia touch sensor, just to make it compatible with your Windows laptop and Android tablet. All of this shoots the price up exponentially with no quality assurance of it working as intended at the end.

A few years back, Nato threatened Turkey with severe consequences for attempting to integrate a Chinese air defence system into its networked hub, ultimately forcing it to abandon the deal. For India, whose equipment is overwhelmingly Russian, the belief that the Americans will sell their crown jewel to interface with Russian equipment is laughable, especially in the wake of Russia’s sophisticated hacking of US elections, and India’s notoriously lax data hygiene and operational security.

Right now the level of political trust without India signing the Communication and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) stands at F-16 transfer and that is all. For India to qualify for the F-35 politically, it would either have to abandon all its Russian equipment and ‘strategically autonomous’ networks, and make all equipment CISMOA compatible, or it would get a hollowed out aircraft, at a significant cost escalation with vastly reduced capabilities.

In short, the F-35 is a brilliant plane that’ll either wreck the budget or wreck our operational capability for decades to come with a very high political cost. Any talk of acquiring it therefore is deeply misguided, incredibly uninformed and incredibly dangerous.

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra is senior fellow, Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies and Angad Singh is deputy director, Project Adhira: an airpower focussed think-tank

The views expressed are personal

[Oracle]

$20 billion defence project: India kicks off process to procure 110 fighter jets for IAF.

Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

[jlvfr]

$20 billion defence project: India kicks off process to procure 110 fighter jets for IAF.

Not sure if I should laugh or cry.

Wait... what?... and now they are throwning single and 2-engine fighters into the same race?...

I give it 20 years before the IAF sees another fighter... at least...

[SteveDaPirate]

The domestic production requirement seems pretty reasonable considering LM was already offering to move the F-16 production line to India. What seems to be conspicuously absent from this RFI is the mention of Technology Transfer requirements... That's been the major sticking point in the past and I doubt GoI has suddenly decided they can live without it.

[jlvfr]

The domestic production requirement seems pretty reasonable considering LM was already offering to move the F-16 production line to India. What seems to be conspicuously absent from this RFI is the mention of Technology Transfer requirements... That's been the major sticking point in the past and I doubt GoI has suddenly decided they can live without it.

85% are to be built in India with a domestic strategic partner or production agency

This pretty much guarantees the need for massive tech transfer.

[SteveDaPirate]

This pretty much guarantees the need for massive tech transfer.

I guess it depends on how they define "built". I could see LM setting up a manufacturing and assembly line for F-16s that produces the airframe itself in India in partnership with HAL. But plugging in components like the radar, ECM, and engines during the building process and convincing Northrop to hand over the plans to the AN/APG-83 are totally different ballgames.

[jlvfr]

I guess it depends on how they define "built". I could see LM setting up a manufacturing and assembly line for F-16s that produces the airframe itself in India in partnership with HAL. But plugging in components like the radar, ECM, and engines during the building process and convincing Northrop to hand over the plans to the AN/APG-83 are totally different ballgames.

You mean license assembly as opposed to building (pretty much) from scratch? Yeah, but from the start I get the idea that India wants to build everything, or at least as much as possible.

[DarthSiddius]

This true? F18s and not F16s?

For 'Make In India' Super Hornet Jets, Boeing Ties Up With Mahindra, HAL

THIRUVEDANTHAI: Boeing today announced a partnership with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Mahindra Defence Systems (MDS) for manufacturing the F/A-18 Super Hornet in India for its air force.

The US aerospace major said the partnership will also work for joint development of future technologies in India, saying it will transform India's aerospace and defence ecosystem.

The announcement was made on the second day of the Defence Expo in Thiruvedanthai.

Boeing said the partnership will be for production of an affordable, combat-proven fighter platform for India.

"Boeing is excited to team up with India's only company that manufactures combat fighters, HAL, and India's only company that manufactures small commercial airplanes, Mahindra," said Pratyush Kumar, president, Boeing India.

"This partnership brings the best of Indian public and private enterprises together in partnership with the world's largest aerospace company, Boeing, to accelerate a contemporary 21stcentury ecosystem for aerospace & defence manufacturing in India, said Pratyush Kumar, president, Boeing India," he said.

Last week, India had issued an initial tender or Request For Information for the procurement of 110 single and twin seater fighter jets for Indian Air Force in the biggest such initiative in recent years globally.

[jlvfr]

This true? F18s and not F16s?

Makes sense. The Tejas is/will fill the slot of the single engine/light(ish) fighter, which leaves the long range heavy role of the original MMRCA request. What surprises me is the choice of F-18 over Rafale. Another set of spares & training requirements for the logistics to wail about...

[DarthSiddius]

Manufacturing/assembly of the aircraft in India might have something to do with it.

[Officer of Engineers]

After seeing the RAFALE fiasco, I'll wait for the first plane to roll out before making an assessement. Seriously, did the MiGs and SUKHOIs had this much trouble?

[jlvfr]

Seriously, did the MiGs and SUKHOIs had this much trouble?

At the time, India didn't want to home-build fighters, just bought want it needed.

[anil]

Indian PM visits sweden after 30 years

Last indian PM visit to sweden was in 1988.

Swedens saab gripen is competing in indias fighter jet competition. It is powdered by the volvo rm12 engine.