Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    B = Bison. And it happened, for the first time in its history, a Mig-21 shot an F-16 down. IAF is not the PAF or the PA or the PN to lie about such a thing.

    F-21 will give India 'significant edge' with greater standoff capability: Lockheed

    This is from today.
    Note that I'm not denying the shootdown, far from it. Many people seem to think that "high tech/new = wins". This is far from it, and history proves this again and again. In the 91 Gukf War, an SA-2 shotdown a brand new F-14B, chockfull of the latest high-tech gear. An SA-3 shot down an F-117.

    In this case, I think it's clear the -21 pilot was well trained; he almost certainly knew how to advantage of the massed close quarters fight to get the F-16. And the Bison's systems are top of the line, not what many think this old bird has.

    As for that article? Lockheed in full PR mode, trying to smooth things over. I find it particullary funny the mention of "greater standoff capability". As if a)that had anything to do with this fight and b)the SU-30 and Rafales involved had none...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
      Note that I'm not denying the shootdown, far from it. Many people seem to think that "high tech/new = wins". This is far from it, and history proves this again and again. In the 91 Gukf War, an SA-2 shotdown a brand new F-14B, chockfull of the latest high-tech gear. An SA-3 shot down an F-117.

      In this case, I think it's clear the -21 pilot was well trained; he almost certainly knew how to advantage of the massed close quarters fight to get the F-16. And the Bison's systems are top of the line, not what many think this old bird has.
      Don't get me wrong, I wanted to know your perspective vis-a-vis the dogfight, since you've been here on this thread for a long time. It's good to see you didn't fall for the Pakistani ISPR propaganda (visit the Jaish thread to see some of their propaganda and how DE debunked most of it).

      There are videos in earlier pages (Jaish thread) that explain how it went down. And as about the IAF, I have mentioned it in the appropriate thread, which in gfaust's words are - good crew in a crap boat are better than crap crew in a good boat. So, yes, IAF trains its fighter pilots very hard, since we're in a state of war all the time (Pak/China).

      The other thing being, if IAF can shoot down an F-16 with a Mig-21B, I'd guess they could shoot down the J-20/J-31 with an F-21.

      So, I'd very much like to see the F-21 in IAF's inventory, and the F-18 for the Indian Navy. The issue here could be the cold war mentality, plus assurances in writing that we can use the F-21 against an American ally, if needed in times of crisis/war, while getting continued support and spares from LM undisturbed. Now, LM has already said they want to move the entire production line to India, but I don't think they have the engine, avionics etc on their mind for the production line in India. Nobody shares full ToT, so I guess LM would want to keep such things in America. I think this issue will be decided by this year end, after the BJP comes to power again.

      As for that article? Lockheed in full PR mode, trying to smooth things over. I find it particullary funny the mention of "greater standoff capability". As if a)that had anything to do with this fight and b)the SU-30 and Rafales involved had none...
      IAF used the Mirages, not Rafales. Rafale has not been delivered yet. But, PAF did use their F-16s. :D
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        IAF used the Mirages, not Rafales. Rafale has not been delivered yet. But, PAF did use their F-16s. :D
        Oops, my bad, got fixated on the Rafale!

        Comment




        • More raving about the MH 60 Seahawk


          Okay, I take back some of my criticisms of the BJP government when it comes to defense. 60+ years of Congress misrule, and my expectations went through the roof when BJP came to power. These negotiations take time. Good job Mr. Prime Minister.
          9:30 AON(?) given in Aug last year, request made in Nov, end of March the state dept approved it, contract to be signed by this year's end. First helis arrive 18 -24 months thereafter.

          That means we get them mid 2021 at the earliest
          Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Apr 19,, 20:53.

          Comment


          • Coming soon! AMCA, India's Gen-5 fighter

            A 5th gen fighter aircraft, a decade from now......is a good investment? Why not buy a 5th gen plane, learn from it, and design a 6th gen instead. Unmanned that is. Jlvfr, your views please.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
              Coming soon! AMCA, India's Gen-5 fighter

              A 5th gen fighter aircraft, a decade from now......is a good investment? Why not buy a 5th gen plane, learn from it, and design a 6th gen instead. Unmanned that is. Jlvfr, your views please.
              Me?! I'm just an amateur. :D

              Tbh, the whole generations thing is blurred at best and depends a lot on the country of origin. Technically, afaik, for India it would be 3rd, since it would be their 3rd indigenous fighter (Marut, Tejas, AMCA)...

              As for good idea? I'd guess nation X's independence in equipment is a good idea (despite how many foreign components and munitions have to be imported), but I thinkg you need
              - money; can India aford this, specially vs imported/license built equipment
              - industrial capability: clearly there is considerable industry in India; production of the SU proves it, as well as the many upgrade programs.
              - know how & manpower: yes, at least for current generations of hardware.
              - organization & politics: well... yeah... Tejas and the "what when where will we buy/build/license/not/yes" programs of the last few years put this in doubt, tbh...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Coming soon! AMCA, India's Gen-5 fighter

                A 5th gen fighter aircraft, a decade from now......is a good investment? Why not buy a 5th gen plane, learn from it, and design a 6th gen instead. Unmanned that is. Jlvfr, your views please.
                Good!! this will give the India first-ers something to chew on

                Comment


                • F-15 to enter the contest -> Surprise third American entry for Indian fighter jet deal, F 15EX in the fray
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                    And the mess gets messier... I guess it makes sense, but...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                      And the mess gets messier... I guess it makes sense, but...
                      Como estat' jlvfr. Nothing makes much sense in India. You should definitely come to India once and find out for yourself. :D
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • The IAF and Rafale can't get a break...

                        Coronavirus may hit Rafale fighter jets delivery

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                          The IAF and Rafale can't get a break...

                          Coronavirus may hit Rafale fighter jets delivery
                          France Hands Over Three Rafale Fighter Jets to India

                          ^ That was last year. From what I read, of which I couldn't manage the save the source, 4 new jets would arrive by this month/June end.

                          Now the bad news, India seeks local warplanes as overseas purchase plan stalls
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • Got it, First four Rafale jets likely to arrive in India by last week of July
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              France Hands Over Three Rafale Fighter Jets to India

                              ^ That was last year. From what I read, of which I couldn't manage the save the source, 4 new jets would arrive by this month/June end.
                              Good news for the IAF.

                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              Ooh look, the dance is restarting...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X