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Thread: Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    B = Bison. And it happened, for the first time in its history, a Mig-21 shot an F-16 down. IAF is not the PAF or the PA or the PN to lie about such a thing.

    F-21 will give India 'significant edge' with greater standoff capability: Lockheed

    This is from today.
    Note that I'm not denying the shootdown, far from it. Many people seem to think that "high tech/new = wins". This is far from it, and history proves this again and again. In the 91 Gukf War, an SA-2 shotdown a brand new F-14B, chockfull of the latest high-tech gear. An SA-3 shot down an F-117.

    In this case, I think it's clear the -21 pilot was well trained; he almost certainly knew how to advantage of the massed close quarters fight to get the F-16. And the Bison's systems are top of the line, not what many think this old bird has.

    As for that article? Lockheed in full PR mode, trying to smooth things over. I find it particullary funny the mention of "greater standoff capability". As if a)that had anything to do with this fight and b)the SU-30 and Rafales involved had none...

  2. #752
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Note that I'm not denying the shootdown, far from it. Many people seem to think that "high tech/new = wins". This is far from it, and history proves this again and again. In the 91 Gukf War, an SA-2 shotdown a brand new F-14B, chockfull of the latest high-tech gear. An SA-3 shot down an F-117.

    In this case, I think it's clear the -21 pilot was well trained; he almost certainly knew how to advantage of the massed close quarters fight to get the F-16. And the Bison's systems are top of the line, not what many think this old bird has.
    Don't get me wrong, I wanted to know your perspective vis-a-vis the dogfight, since you've been here on this thread for a long time. It's good to see you didn't fall for the Pakistani ISPR propaganda (visit the Jaish thread to see some of their propaganda and how DE debunked most of it).

    There are videos in earlier pages (Jaish thread) that explain how it went down. And as about the IAF, I have mentioned it in the appropriate thread, which in gfaust's words are - good crew in a crap boat are better than crap crew in a good boat. So, yes, IAF trains its fighter pilots very hard, since we're in a state of war all the time (Pak/China).

    The other thing being, if IAF can shoot down an F-16 with a Mig-21B, I'd guess they could shoot down the J-20/J-31 with an F-21.

    So, I'd very much like to see the F-21 in IAF's inventory, and the F-18 for the Indian Navy. The issue here could be the cold war mentality, plus assurances in writing that we can use the F-21 against an American ally, if needed in times of crisis/war, while getting continued support and spares from LM undisturbed. Now, LM has already said they want to move the entire production line to India, but I don't think they have the engine, avionics etc on their mind for the production line in India. Nobody shares full ToT, so I guess LM would want to keep such things in America. I think this issue will be decided by this year end, after the BJP comes to power again.

    As for that article? Lockheed in full PR mode, trying to smooth things over. I find it particullary funny the mention of "greater standoff capability". As if a)that had anything to do with this fight and b)the SU-30 and Rafales involved had none...
    IAF used the Mirages, not Rafales. Rafale has not been delivered yet. But, PAF did use their F-16s. :D
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  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    IAF used the Mirages, not Rafales. Rafale has not been delivered yet. But, PAF did use their F-16s. :D
    Oops, my bad, got fixated on the Rafale!

  4. #754
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    More raving about the MH 60 Seahawk


    Okay, I take back some of my criticisms of the BJP government when it comes to defense. 60+ years of Congress misrule, and my expectations went through the roof when BJP came to power. These negotiations take time. Good job Mr. Prime Minister.
    9:30 AON(?) given in Aug last year, request made in Nov, end of March the state dept approved it, contract to be signed by this year's end. First helis arrive 18 -24 months thereafter.

    That means we get them mid 2021 at the earliest
    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Apr 19, at 20:53.

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