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Thread: Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

  1. #706
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Boeing delivers first four Chinook helicopters for IAF

    How do 15 of these birds add any value? Maybe we'll get more in the coming years. Still, better something, rather than nothing.
    We made a tiny part of them ?

    http://www.boeing.co.in/news-and-med...-tailcone.page

    And 15 is better than the just one soviet era heavy lift heli the IAF uses presently : )

    Before you ask who told me that, Here

    Chinooks with upgraded engines come in the mid 2030's and the US plans to use them till 2060.

    Imagine that, which military platform can legitimately claim to have been in service for a hundred years ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Feb 19, at 02:24.

  2. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post

    Imagine that, which military platform can legitimately claim to have been in service for a hundred years ?
    B-52 and Tu-95 are heading there fast... :D

  3. #708
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    B-52 and Tu-95 are heading there fast... :D
    In another 21 years, HAL will be in that list too, albeit for making nothing on its own. Blood sucking PSUs.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  4. #709
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  5. #710
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Saab proposes to make 96 Gripen jets in India to win Air Force deal

    What makes them think they can beat F-16 or Rafale?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  6. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Saab proposes to make 96 Gripen jets in India to win Air Force deal

    What makes them think they can beat F-16 or Rafale?
    I'd say a mix of cost and politics. Don't know about the F-16, but I'd bet the Grippen is cheaper than the Rafale.

    As for politics, buying into top-level US-gear means dealing with US politics and more-or-less sidding with them, at least in the public view. Always a chancy thing for a neutral country, even more more so with the current administration...

    Whereas the Grippen comes from a neutral country, which always sugars the pill. Never mind the fact the engine is US...

  7. #712
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Saab proposes to make 96 Gripen jets in India to win Air Force deal

    What makes them think they can beat F-16 or Rafale?
    Positive thinking.

    I am saying this whole rafale controversy was funded by those arms lobbies that wanted a piece of the action.

    By knocking Rafale out of the running in any manner possible.

    Hope the opposition were adequately remunerated for all the hot air they put out. They will need it to fight the general election.

    Bloody arms lobbies make it next to impossible to understand for a layperson what we are getting and when a decision is made its always either too expensive, a scam or crap !!!!
    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Feb 19, at 21:14.

  8. #713
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    We need 4.5 gen aircrafts to replace aging Russian aircrafts in our inventory. The decision to buy 100+ of these birds will be based on current threat levels (Air Force will have a say) as well as political considerations (PMO will take the final call).

    Don't think Russians will get a pie of this contract, as they have already got a couple of billions (S-400 etc). Rafales suits us - we have had Mirages that helped our forces in Kargil (US didn't help - so these past incidents will play in the minds of our politicians), now we will be adding another 36. Navy wants another 57 birds. F-16 wants to set-up an fighter jet eco-system here in India, if they win the contract. Then there is the F-18 which is vying for the Navy's contract. Adani is, from the looks of it, being favoured by the current government, and he has tied up with Saab, so Gripen has a chance, but they use American GE engines.

    Whichever it is, they have to do it sooner. Don't drag defense modernisation like how the corrupt Congress did for 71 years.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  9. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    now we will be adding another 36.
    This was actually confirmed? I kinda lost track, tbh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Then there is the F-18 which is vying for the Navy's contract.
    Unless the Indian Navy starts building conventional carriers, I don't see this happening...

  10. #715
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    This was actually confirmed? I kinda lost track, tbh...
    Yes, 36 Rafales. Will be arriving shortly from the *** end of this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Unless the Indian Navy starts building conventional carriers, I don't see this happening...
    We're. IAC-1 is on. IAC-2 is on the drawing board, for which US help was sought (Ashton Carter). I think you meant nuclear carriers.



    Lockheed unveils new F-21 fighter jet configured for India

    Damn! Sleek! What makes LM so confident.

    #1. Building up on the Indo-US strategic defence co-operation (lobbying included :D).

    #2. The name F-16, which is an anathema to many cold war bureaucrats in the South Block, has been changed to F-21 to minimize political criticism.

    #3. Make in India (defence) in South Block, is the Indian Government's desire to acquire American hi-tech. But since, those are prone to sanctions, the whole ecosystem is to be built in India with an Indian partner (TAS) to offset the effect of American sanctions. But, what about engines, huh?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  11. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Yes, 36 Rafales. Will be arriving shortly from the *** end of this year.
    But are these extra 36, or just the 36 of the original contract? I know the IAF wanted more, which makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    We're. IAC-1 is on. IAC-2 is on the drawing board, for which US help was sought (Ashton Carter). I think you meant nuclear carriers.
    I meant with catapults, not ramp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post

    #2. The name F-16, which is an anathema to many cold war bureaucrats in the South Block, has been changed to F-21 to minimize political criticism.
    Yeah, the political side is one that Saab is playing on, I bet.

  12. #717
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    But are these extra 36, or just the 36 of the original contract? I know the IAF wanted more, which makes sense.
    The 126 aircraft MRCA was scrapped. 36 was ordered in flyaway condition from France under IGA (Inter Government Agreement).

    Yeah, the political side is one that Saab is playing on, I bet.
    Gripen flies with the Volvo turbofan engine (licensed from GE F404). So, I don't see how the Swedes are gonna win this. I admire their patience though. Must be the cold weather and all.

    Read this - CAG report shows IAF wanted only Rafale, competitive bidding was just a charade

    If any of this is true (which I think is true), I don't think LM stands a chance. The 36 Rafales which were bought had political overtones to it, performance being the second criteria. My happiness for the F-21 has been short lived.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Gripen flies with the Volvo turbofan engine (licensed from GE F404). So, I don't see how the Swedes are gonna win this. I admire their patience though. Must be the cold weather and all.
    I know, it's a dangerous point. But note that the Grippen allready own a contest vs the F-18, in Brazil, so the engine might not be that much of a block. And the US is allready selling other gear to India (Apache and C-17), so it's not a clear cut win anymore.

    While I admit I don't like single-source selections without cheking all the choices, I have to say the twists and turns of Indian procurement are... amazing...

  14. #719
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    India goes to an old friend for fighter aircraft

    1 squadron each of Su-30MKI and Mig-29.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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