Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[Double Edge]

The Pakistan army.

We are talking war now and i've been conditioned to think the Paks don't want to go there in the conventional sense.

They could fire a few if a scenario developed with China though

[Josh]

You still prepare for an attack even if you don't expect it. Pakistan possesses the Chinese knock off of the MQ-1/9 series and I assume smaller types as well.

[Double Edge]

Depends on what kind of drone you want and for what purpose. Anyone with money can get a decent drone just to wreck things up. 5mn on google gave me these. Very impressive models, for civilians.

Yes you would need many and its pretty difficult to do. Hijack a plane and fly it into something is easier. Airport security in India is very tight, been that way since the early 90s. But could happen from airports in other countries. We had an incident like in 1999 but the idea was to bust people out not crash into anything.

[Double Edge]

You still prepare for an attack even if you don't expect it. Pakistan possesses the Chinese knock off of the MQ-1/9 series and I assume smaller types as well.

ok, so this means the Paks are reaching a point where they can credibly threaten Indian cities with missiles. Hence a shield is required.

Routine force matching ?

Loking at the ranges of these systems gives an idea of their intent

DRDO's Phase 1 operates at 2000 km and Phase 2 at 5000km. These are China facing and designed for boost phase interception with attendant debris falling in the lands launched from

S-400 goes up to 400km. This one looks Pak facing

NASAMs has a range of 50 - 180km, short range. Last resort

[Firestorm]

DRDO's Phase 1 operates at 2000 km and Phase 2 at 5000km. These are China facing and designed for boost phase interception with attendant debris falling in the lands launched from

Where did you read it is boost phase interception? That is not correct.

S-400 goes up to 400km. This one looks Pak facing

There are no details on which missiles are included in the deal. Only the 40N6 has the purported 400km range and may not be included.

NASAMs has a range of 50 - 180km, short range. Last resort

NASAMS is meant for intercepting aircraft not ballistic missiles.

[Firestorm]

We are talking war now and i've been conditioned to think the Paks don't want to go there in the conventional sense.

They could fire a few if a scenario developed with China though

DE, we both know very well that Pakistan based terrorist outfits will have only those weapons which the PA wants them to have. Nothing more, nothing less. So asking which outfits can get a certain system is pointless. The answer is always - whoever the PA feels needs to have the system at a particular time.

[Double Edge]

Where did you read it is boost phase interception? That is not correct.

Ah, they were talking about air defense systems in general. It was not specified which system did it.

There are no details on which missiles are included in the deal. Only the 40N6 has the purported 400km range and may not be included.

Should become clear in the next few months.

[Double Edge]

DE, we both know very well that Pakistan based terrorist outfits will have only those weapons which the PA wants them to have. Nothing more, nothing less. So asking which outfits can get a certain system is pointless. The answer is always - whoever the PA feels needs to have the system at a particular time.

Imagine me a scenario where they fire a missile or two at us and then say it was non-state actors. We're definitely gearing up. They don't want that. I can't see a terror angle.

The Houthis did it because they were already being bombed by the Saudis ie already in a state of war. Should that develop then yes, any outfit gets them

The Chinese have a lot of missiles, if things go south on the border they will throw a lot at us. This is where those systems will help.

[Firestorm]

Ah, they were talking about air defense systems in general. It was not specified which system did it.

No system, anywhere in the world can do it as of now.

Should become clear in the next few months.

That info may never be released on the other hand.

[Firestorm]

Imagine me a scenario where they fire a missile or two at us and then say it was non-state actors. We're definitely gearing up. They don't want that. I can't see a terror angle.

NASAMS can be used to defend against missiles (cruise, not ballistic) and drones. Whether they are fired by terrorists or Pak Army does not matter to the system. Of course it is another thing that even without NASAMS, Spyder, Akash and MR-SAM (Barak-8) can do the job just as well. There is nothing special about NASAMS.

[Double Edge]

Its worse than that. India is already acquiring the Spyder and Barak-8 land based version (called MR-SAM in IAF). I have no idea what capability NASAMS will provide which is not covered by those two.

S-400 is in a different category.

Don't suspect corruption this time. Probably some kind of quid pro quo to get a CAATSA waiver for the S-400 buy. I'm only guessing.

The Tejas flies with GE engines so the Americans have a huge leverage on India when it comes to CAATSA. If we had to buy something NASAMS having an overlap with Barak-8 is good in that we don't have to worry about future sanctions.

NASAMS can be used to defend against missiles (cruise, not ballistic) and drones. Whether they are fired by terrorists or Pak Army does not matter to the system. Of course it is another thing that even without NASAMS, Spyder, Akash and MR-SAM (Barak-8) can do the job just as well. There is nothing special about NASAMS.

Could be we're trying to get the best price for them. By considering several models that do the same job. I also think its a way to keep partners happy.

[Oracle]

This compliments this $1 Billion buy.

[Firestorm]

Could be we're trying to get the best price for them. By considering several models that do the same job. I also think its a way to keep partners happy.

Spyder-MR and Akash are already inducted and operational. MR-SAM is a JV with DRDO providing the dual-pulse rocket motor etc. A contract is already signed. BDL even built a new production facility in Hyderabad. Bit too late to haggle on prices.

[Firestorm]

This compliments this $1 Billion buy.

The Ballistic missile defence part of the proposed system is the indigenous BMD system. The only American part of the "missile shield" is said to be NASAMS which the article states:

The NASAMS, in turn, is geared towards intercepting cruise missiles, aircraft and drones," said a source.

If you look up its capability, it provides nothing that we're not already getting with Spyder-MR and MR-SAM.

[Oracle]

The Ballistic missile defence part of the proposed system is the indigenous BMD system. The only American part of the "missile shield" is said to be NASAMS which the article states:

If you look up its capability, it provides nothing that we're not already getting with Spyder-MR and MR-SAM.

Which re-iterates my point as mentioned in post #672.