Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[popillol]

I swear India is trying to win the award for operating the most types of fighters.

• SU-30 MKI
• MiG-29 > MiG-29UPG
• MiG-21
• MiG-27
• Jaguar
• Tejas
• Mirage 2000H > Mirage 2000 MK2
• Rafale
• FGFA?
• AMCA?

I can't help but think that pruning that list down to 2 or 3 types in large numbers would serve India much better than continuing to buy a handful of fighters here and there. The logistics and training for such a diverse fleet must be a nightmare.

Still trying or already won, LOL!
The Air Chief had been repeatedly stating at every opportunity he got that Rafales have their own use in IAF. Seems like Rafales will replace the Mig-21s and 27s as soon as they arrive in India. Followed in the medium term by retirement of Jaguars.
The picture should look like this: Light: Tejas; Medium: Rafales, AMCA; Heavy: FGFA, Su-30MKIs.
Mirages' spares won't be a problem when Rafales gets going.

Also, with IAF and Navy sharing Rafales (albeit different versions, but still), logistics will become a lot easier.

[Oracle]

Gripen & F-16 compete in MMRCA re-run
This is becoming an Indian soap opera.

[jlvfr]

Gripen & F-16 compete in MMRCA re-run
This is becoming an Indian soap opera.

Oh.My.God...

This is rapidly going beyond the capacity for description... and the F-18 may join the party.

Edit: I think F-16 would be a bad choice, tbh. Apart from another logistical/training system, it would require an air refueling system the IAF does not have.

[Oracle]

Oh.My.God...

This is rapidly going beyond the capacity for description... and the F-18 may join the party.

Edit: I think F-16 would be a bad choice, tbh. Apart from another logistical/training system, it would require an air refueling system the IAF does not have.

The rot is deeper. 70 years of corruption and neglect. Now we have a defense minister who's a civilian. And you know how MoD as a bureaucratic system works, or any other Governmental office.

[jlvfr]

Right. I'm laying odds:

5-1 the IAF doesn't get an MMRCA within the next 10 years

15-1 the IAF doesn't get an MMRCA. Period.

[Stitch]

Oh.My.God...

This is rapidly going beyond the capacity for description... and the F-18 may join the party.

Edit: I think F-16 would be a bad choice, tbh. Apart from another logistical/training system, it would require an air refueling system the IAF does not have.

Awesome.

Maybe the Superbug will get another shot at the MMRCA; always thought the F-18E/F (especially the F) would have been a good fit for the IAF, but I guess they didn't think so. As jlvfr mentioned, the F-18 WOULD be compatible with the probe-and-drogue a-to-a refueling system they currently field using the Il-78.

This article is a few months old but, apparently, there's still hope!

India keen to buy F/A 18 Super Hornet fighter jets for IAF

[jlvfr]

Awesome.

Maybe the Superbug will get another shot at the MMRCA; always thought the F-18E/F (especially the F) would have been a good fit for the IAF, but I guess they didn't think so. As jlvfr mentioned, the F-18 WOULD be compatible with the probe-and-drogue a-to-a refueling system they currently field using the Il-78.

This article is a few months old but, apparently, there's still hope!

India keen to buy F/A 18 Super Hornet fighter jets for IAF

And the navy could forget the Mig-29K... although I don't know if the F-18 can use ramps...

[citanon]

I thought there was something about the F-18 not being suitable for operations in the Himalayas....

[Dazed]

I thought there was something about the F-18 not being suitable for operations in the Himalayas....

The F-18 has a service ceiling of over 50,000 feet, the Himalaya about 29,000 feet. I am no expert but I think the F-18 would do fine in the Himalayas.

[gf0012-aust]

I thought there was something about the F-18 not being suitable for operations in the Himalayas....

They're after the Shornet - so that ceiling limitation isn't a delimiter - it would hardly be a delimiter even if it was a classic hornet

If India gets a line option then they would prefer the Shornet over the Viper - they're hardly interested in getting the same frame as their principle regional enemy anyway

Plus, Shornet access means Growler access, even if it means that they don't get the full US FMS/ITARs ToT on the ewarfare suite - if they are producing locally then I imagine that their relationship with the israelis on ewarfare issues would get some instant attention.

A Growler is a much better option for India than buying a Viper ridgeback for a whole variety of reasons

[Stitch]

They're after the Shornet - so that ceiling limitation isn't a delimiter - it would hardly be a delimiter even if it was a classic hornet

If India gets a line option then they would prefer the Shornet over the Viper - they're hardly interested in getting the same frame as their principle regional enemy anyway

Plus, Shornet access means Growler access, even if it means that they don't get the full US FMS/ITARs ToT on the ewarfare suite - if they are producing locally then I imagine that their relationship with the israelis on ewarfare issues would get some instant attention.

Another point in Boeing's favor is the fact that the IAF already operates Boeing C-17's, and they just inked a deal for 22 Apaches and 15 Chinooks, so India should be familiar with Boeing's products by now. It wouldn't be much more of a stretch to add a little more of a logistics tail to the Boeing pipeline, especially if they end up doing a joint venture thing for the manufacturing of the F-18 E/F/G (what India calls a "buy and make" deal).

A Growler is a much better option for India than buying a Viper ridgeback for a whole variety of reasons

Yes, a purpose-built ECM platform would be much better than buying an older airframe and stuffing more electronics into it. If they wanted to, India could even do the same thing that Australia did, and buy F-18F's that are already pre-wired for conversion into a "G" with relatively little effort.

[jlvfr]

Amazing. India & France finally signed the contract for 36 Rafales! All aircraft to be delivered by 2019.

I'm betting much champagne's been spilled at Dassault's HQ.

[SteveDaPirate]

It breaks down to $242 million per jet.

"The deal includes the aircraft in fly-away condition, weapons, simulators, spares, maintenance, and Performance Based Logistics support for five years."

"There is a 50 percent offset clause under which French industry will invest half the contract value back in the country which is expected to develop some expertise domestically in the aerospace sector.

Officials said 74 percent of the 50 percent offset value should be exported from India. This is expected to result in Euro 3 billion over the next 7 years. There is also a six percent technology sharing component, which is being discussed with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)."

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle9140011.ece

[jlvfr]

It breaks down to $242 million per jet.

"The deal includes the aircraft in fly-away condition, weapons, simulators, spares, maintenance, and Performance Based Logistics support for five years."

Can't include those with the cost per jet, they are completely separate.

[Albany Rifles]

Can't include those with the cost per jet, they are completely separate.

Not necessarily...in the US if the same project manager is responsible for all then it is rolled into a single price. If support equipment are under separate PMs then you would be correct.

Not sure how the PM works here.