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  • http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...ck-52-aircraft

    US to transfer eight f16s to pakistan

    WASHINGTON, Feb. 12, 2016 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Pakistan for F-16 Block 52 Aircraft, equipment, training, and logistics support. The estimated cost is $699.04 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on February 11, 2016.

    The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:

    Major Defense Equipment (MDE):
    Eight (8) F-16 Block 52 aircraft (two (2) C and six (6) D models), with the F100-PW-229 increased
    performance engine
    Fourteen (14) Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)

    Non-MDE items included in this request are eight (8) AN/APG-68(V)9 radars, and eight (8) ALQ-211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS). Additionally, this possible sale includes spare and repair parts, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated cost of MDE is $564.68 million. The total estimated cost is $699.04 million.
    This proposed sale contributes to U.S. foreign policy objectives and national security goals by helping to improve the security of a strategic partner in South Asia.

    The proposed sale improves Pakistan's capability to meet current and future security threats. These additional F-16 aircraft will facilitate operations in all-weather, non-daylight environments, provide a self-defense/area suppression capability, and enhance Pakistan’s ability to conduct counter-insurgency and counterterrorism operations.

    This sale will increase the number of aircraft available to the Pakistan Air Force to sustain operations, meet monthly training requirements, and support transition training for pilots new to the Block-52. Pakistan will have no difficulty absorbing these additional aircraft into its air force.

    The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

    Contractors have not been selected to support this proposed sale. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

    Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Pakistan.

    There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

    This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.
    The americans are "notifying" a possible "sale" of f16s to pakistan for "counter-terrorism" efforts.

    I assume some rafale deal between india-france has actually done through
    Last edited by anil; 13 Feb 16,, 09:59.

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    • Originally posted by anil View Post
      http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...ck-52-aircraft

      US to transfer eight f16s to pakistan




      The americans are "notifying" a possible "sale" of f16s to pakistan for "counter-terrorism" efforts.

      I assume some rafale deal between india-france has actually done through
      Wouldn't it be funny if this was a favor from Obama for Hollande?

      Comment


      • ^Same old same old since the 50s unless india can make the game an economic challenge for the US - like a breakthrough in its engine tech
        Last edited by anil; 13 Feb 16,, 10:31.

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        • Originally posted by anil View Post
          I assume some rafale deal between india-france has actually done through
          hah. let's see after six months.

          Comment


          • Finally, A Deal. India To Buy 36 Rafale Jets For $8.8 Billion

            Link

            NEW DELHI:

            India's much-negotiated deal with France for 36 fighter jets is final - it will buy the French-made Rafale planes for 8.8 billion dollars, said sources to NDTV. The agreement is to be signed within three weeks and it will take at least 18 months for India to get the first lot of aircraft.

            France initially sought nearly 12 billion dollars for the sale of 36 fighters complete with weapon systems. India has closed the deal nearly 3 billion dollars below France's asking price.

            Prime Minister Narendra Modi during a visit to Paris last year confirmed India's order of 36 read-to-fly jets. Before that, the Defence Ministry had sanctioned the purchase of 120 planes, but the deal was scaled down dramatically after both sides were unable for years to agree on the unit price and the assembling of the planes in India.

            The Rafales are made by manufacturer Dassault Aviation. During PM Modi's visit, the countries agreed that the deal would be handled between their governments.

            The Air Force has stressed it needs to start replacing its ageing jet fleet from 2017 to effectively check the capabilities of Pakistan and China.


            The Rafale fighter is manufactured by Dassault Aviation
            As the negotiations stretched - and a deal was not reached during French President Francois Hollande's visit to India in January, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said he is "a tough negotiator" and needed time to ensure a good bargain. The Air Force has repeatedly been asking for its ageing warplane fleet to be urgently modernised.

            Sources say that as part of the government's push to develop and support military manufacturing at home, in exchange for selling India off-the-shelf Rafales, French companies including Dassault will have to invest three billion dollars in India to help firms here with stealth-capability and radar technologies. France had initially agreed to a 30 per cent offset obligation to be invested in India, while India had sought a minimum of 50 per cent. France has now agreed for 50 per cent offset obligation.

            Comment


            • The cynic in me wants to actually see Rafales with IAF markings before believing...

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              • Well, in other forums people with inside sources are saying the following:

                1. 36 planes are just the start. Make In India component is the real deal. With MII orders of 90+ aircrafts to be signed within months
                2. Ultimately, Indian Navy is also going to order Rafale-M for its carriers. Total projected Rafales are to surpass Su-30MKI numbers, with total of ~400 jets. (189 for air force, rest for navy)
                3. There is also a partnership in nuke subs and diesel subs with LnT as the Indian partner.

                Guys named Parikrama and Abingdonboy, if anything goes awry, shoot them not me. LOL!
                Last edited by popillol; 15 Apr 16,, 20:42.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by popillol View Post
                  Well, in other forums people with inside sources are saying the following:

                  2. Ultimately, Indian Navy is also going to order Rafale-M for its carriers. Total projected Rafales are to surpass Su-30MKI numbers, with total of ~400 jets. (189 for air force, rest for navy)
                  I wonder how realistic this is, tbh. The Indian Navy is commited to the Mig-29 for now, with the Tejas next. Another fighter makes no sense, specially for such small numbers. Right now, I don't even believe in extra Rafales for the IAF.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                    I wonder how realistic this is, tbh. The Indian Navy is commited to the Mig-29 for now, with the Tejas next. Another fighter makes no sense, specially for such small numbers. Right now, I don't even believe in extra Rafales for the IAF.
                    Well, regarding navy, there are going to be 3 carriers by 2040, mig-29s will have lived their life by then and can't expect light Tejas to be sole aircrafts with the navy.
                    Also, with respect to airforce, just like you said for navy, only 36 makes no sense. There has to be a significant amount to make all the logistics worthy of trouble.
                    Both navy and airforce, it seems, want to move away from Russian aircrafts. Experiencing the difficulties with availability of Su-MKIs ~55%, everyone wants no more of the troubles. And the guys at other forums are saying 18 Rafale Ms will be ordered with 36, so 54 in total.
                    Lets see how much is true though. I am just saying what I have read.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by popillol View Post
                      Well, regarding navy, there are going to be 3 carriers by 2040, mig-29s will have lived their life by then and can't expect light Tejas to be sole aircrafts with the navy.
                      Also, with respect to airforce, just like you said for navy, only 36 makes no sense. There has to be a significant amount to make all the logistics worthy of trouble.
                      Both navy and airforce, it seems, want to move away from Russian aircrafts. Experiencing the difficulties with availability of Su-MKIs ~55%, everyone wants no more of the troubles. And the guys at other forums are saying 18 Rafale Ms will be ordered with 36, so 54 in total.
                      Lets see how much is true though. I am just saying what I have read.
                      Remember the Tejas is still a long way from fully operational. And those carriers are small. To cram enough fighters in them, small Tejas make more sense than bigger Rafales (or Flankers). As for more for the IAF, I know they need/want more, but it took these many years just to buy these... after the "build in India" deal colapsed...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                        Remember the Tejas is still a long way from fully operational. And those carriers are small. To cram enough fighters in them, small Tejas make more sense than bigger Rafales (or Flankers). As for more for the IAF, I know they need/want more, but it took these many years just to buy these... after the "build in India" deal colapsed...
                        IAC 1 is under construction. Next class of carriers are to be nuclear powered or not, is dependent on the cooperation from the US. Hence, the recent back to back visits by Ashton Carter. There was a joint statement on signing LSA renamed as LEMA by changing it according to Indian needs. Whether this succeeds or not depends upon US' commitment to the so called strategic partnerships and if the path finder projects will be EMALS or just soldiers' high tech uniforms. In the meantime another carrier of the same class will be constructed. All this requires that navy has enough planes to put on them otherwise CAG in India will go berserk on the government and that would be a massive setback.
                        One thing that dragged on the current deal so long was that if it materialises, Dassault will remain in India for a long time to come. So extra bargainings was going on for side deals. Expected of these are:
                        Dassault's help regarding Tejas and AMCA.
                        French help regarding nuke and diesel subs.
                        Looks like these informations have a high probability of being true. But let us see what happens.
                        So taking into account production rates of Rafales, Navy has to plan well in advance the future strike force of its carriers. Rafale Ms are not going to come in the next 7-8 years, except maybe those 18. So it all looks likely.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by popillol View Post
                          So taking into account production rates of Rafales, Navy has to plan well in advance the future strike force of its carriers. Rafale Ms are not going to come in the next 7-8 years, except maybe those 18. So it all looks likely.
                          Well, the naval Tejas is still 2 years from flight (at least). Add another for testing, etc... we'll see what happens then. Long planning.

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                          • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                            Well, the naval Tejas is still 2 years from flight (at least).
                            This was a true statement in 2010, since it first flew in 2012. The Naval LCA has not only flown several times since, but conducted STO and AR tests at the SBTF in Goa.

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                            • Originally posted by popillol View Post
                              Also, with respect to airforce, just like you said for navy, only 36 makes no sense. There has to be a significant amount to make all the logistics worthy of trouble.
                              I swear India is trying to win the award for operating the most types of fighters.
                              • SU-30 MKI
                              • MiG-29 > MiG-29UPG
                              • MiG-21
                              • MiG-27
                              • Jaguar
                              • Tejas
                              • Mirage 2000H > Mirage 2000 MK2
                              • Rafale
                              • FGFA?
                              • AMCA?


                              I can't help but think that pruning that list down to 2 or 3 types in large numbers would serve India much better than continuing to buy a handful of fighters here and there. The logistics and training for such a diverse fleet must be a nightmare.

                              Originally posted by popillol View Post
                              Both navy and airforce, it seems, want to move away from Russian aircrafts. Experiencing the difficulties with availability of Su-MKIs ~55%, everyone wants no more of the troubles.
                              My impression of Russian aircraft is that they are cheap to buy but expensive to own. Shorter service lives and lower times between failures compared to western aircraft might very well make them more expensive over the life of the fleet. Particularly since with lower availability rates, you have to buy more aircraft to actually put the same number of planes in the air on any given day.

                              If I could wave a magic wand to adjust the mix, I think I'd get India a bunch of Gripen NG's for a lightweight fighter, made locally with tech transfer to get HAL going. Either Rafale M, or Super Hornet as a medium weight multirole fighter that the navy can also fly off carriers, and F-35s at the high end to keep ahead of China's 5th gen efforts. Alas I'm not magic, but it's fun to imagine.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by S R View Post
                                This was a true statement in 2010, since it first flew in 2012. The Naval LCA has not only flown several times since, but conducted STO and AR tests at the SBTF in Goa.
                                Ah, did not know that, my bad.

                                Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                                I swear India is trying to win the award for operating the most types of fighters.
                                Gives a new meaning to "logistics nightmare"...

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