RoccoR Reply
"(Note: I did not say this. This is not from my posting. RRR)"
Indeed you did not. It's only fair for me to acknowledge. OTOH, you've made very similar comments to me in the past, however, regarding Iraq's proclivities towards violence. No "...dogs of war...", however. Sheer dramatic license on my part.
"I am completely aware that you and people that agree with your argument, like to use that decade old intelligence on how Chemical Weapons were used..."
It is a fact regarding the use of such. However old is irrelevant. CW weapons were again used against the shias in the months immediately following DESERT STORM.
"...I know that most of the IA's are fully aware that the now famous Halabja (in Iraqi Kurdistan, circa 1988) incident was information that was more than a decade old when it was used as justification in 2002..."
What IS relevant is that same leadership council prevailed inside Iraq in February 2003. THAT, sir, is the continuing thread from 1988 to 2003 that bears relevance but remains unacknowledged by those who'd prefer to see Halabja and the Iran war as some sort of "one-off" aberration of an otherwise rational Iraqi leadership.
"...What they don't say is that, the US did nothing because Saddam was a US ally at the time..."
Silly. Were they to do so then they'd (by inference also myself) would be lying. Iraq wasn't an ally of America.
The March 16, 1988 attack on Halabja occurred in the midst of a cold war. Iraq was most certainly an ally... of our enemy- the Soviet Union. It is the Soviet Union, afterall, who provided Iraq with the integrated air defense network dismantled three years later by the coalition forces during Desert Storm. Those Republican Guard T-72s and BMPs didn't come from any NATO arsenal. Neither did those MiG-29 Fulcrums flown to the land of their erstwhile enemy, Iran.
"...I've spent too much time in the Region to trust any of of the players..."
Then a sage, wily and wizened observer such as yourself should know better. It remains more than a little presumptuous to automatically conclude Iraq had been America's busom buddy by virtue of its war upon Iran. Not so. Certainly the crew of the U.S.S. Stark, almost EXACTLY one year prior to Halabja, carried no such illusions.
"...I do know what the IC (Director David Kay, Iraq Survey Group) said on the matter. It is a matter of record. I am also aware of what LTG Odom said on the matter..."
As I'm aware of the words of Charles Duelfer in his transmittal message introducing the DCI Special Advisor's Report On Iraq's WMD-
"...From the evidence available through the actions and statements of a range of Iraqis, it seems clear that the guiding theme for WMD was to sustain the intellectual capacity achieved over so many years at such a great cost and to be in a position to produce again with as short a lead time as possible—within the vital constraint that no action should threaten the prime objective of ending international sanctions and constraints.
Saddam continued to see the utility of WMD. He explained that he purposely gave an ambiguous impression about possession as a deterrent to Iran. He gave explicit direction to maintain the intellectual capabilities. As UN sanctions eroded there was a concomitant expansion of activities that could support full WMD reactivation. He directed that ballistic missile work continue that would support long-range missile development. Virtually no senior Iraq; believed that Saddam had forsaken WMD forever. Evidence suggests that, as resources became available and the constraints of sanctions decayed, there was a direct expansion of activity that would have the effect of supporting future WMD reconstitution..."
Instead of counting heads, you settled for counting warheads.
Comprehensive Report Of The Special Advisor To The DCI On Iraq's WMD-September 2004
DESERT STORM concluded in late March 1991. We didn't invade until late February 2003. Twelve years. I find the report very worthy reading and a clear reminder of a practiced Iraqi apparatus of deceit against which we ineffectually wallowed. I rue walking this ground again. OTOH, I fully appreciate the gravity of the threat posed by Iran accomplishing that which eluded Iraq.
You should too.
"(Note: I did not say this. This is not from my posting. RRR)"
Indeed you did not. It's only fair for me to acknowledge. OTOH, you've made very similar comments to me in the past, however, regarding Iraq's proclivities towards violence. No "...dogs of war...", however. Sheer dramatic license on my part.
"I am completely aware that you and people that agree with your argument, like to use that decade old intelligence on how Chemical Weapons were used..."
It is a fact regarding the use of such. However old is irrelevant. CW weapons were again used against the shias in the months immediately following DESERT STORM.
"...I know that most of the IA's are fully aware that the now famous Halabja (in Iraqi Kurdistan, circa 1988) incident was information that was more than a decade old when it was used as justification in 2002..."
What IS relevant is that same leadership council prevailed inside Iraq in February 2003. THAT, sir, is the continuing thread from 1988 to 2003 that bears relevance but remains unacknowledged by those who'd prefer to see Halabja and the Iran war as some sort of "one-off" aberration of an otherwise rational Iraqi leadership.
"...What they don't say is that, the US did nothing because Saddam was a US ally at the time..."
Silly. Were they to do so then they'd (by inference also myself) would be lying. Iraq wasn't an ally of America.
The March 16, 1988 attack on Halabja occurred in the midst of a cold war. Iraq was most certainly an ally... of our enemy- the Soviet Union. It is the Soviet Union, afterall, who provided Iraq with the integrated air defense network dismantled three years later by the coalition forces during Desert Storm. Those Republican Guard T-72s and BMPs didn't come from any NATO arsenal. Neither did those MiG-29 Fulcrums flown to the land of their erstwhile enemy, Iran.
"...I've spent too much time in the Region to trust any of of the players..."
Then a sage, wily and wizened observer such as yourself should know better. It remains more than a little presumptuous to automatically conclude Iraq had been America's busom buddy by virtue of its war upon Iran. Not so. Certainly the crew of the U.S.S. Stark, almost EXACTLY one year prior to Halabja, carried no such illusions.
"...I do know what the IC (Director David Kay, Iraq Survey Group) said on the matter. It is a matter of record. I am also aware of what LTG Odom said on the matter..."
As I'm aware of the words of Charles Duelfer in his transmittal message introducing the DCI Special Advisor's Report On Iraq's WMD-
"...From the evidence available through the actions and statements of a range of Iraqis, it seems clear that the guiding theme for WMD was to sustain the intellectual capacity achieved over so many years at such a great cost and to be in a position to produce again with as short a lead time as possible—within the vital constraint that no action should threaten the prime objective of ending international sanctions and constraints.
Saddam continued to see the utility of WMD. He explained that he purposely gave an ambiguous impression about possession as a deterrent to Iran. He gave explicit direction to maintain the intellectual capabilities. As UN sanctions eroded there was a concomitant expansion of activities that could support full WMD reactivation. He directed that ballistic missile work continue that would support long-range missile development. Virtually no senior Iraq; believed that Saddam had forsaken WMD forever. Evidence suggests that, as resources became available and the constraints of sanctions decayed, there was a direct expansion of activity that would have the effect of supporting future WMD reconstitution..."
Instead of counting heads, you settled for counting warheads.
Comprehensive Report Of The Special Advisor To The DCI On Iraq's WMD-September 2004
DESERT STORM concluded in late March 1991. We didn't invade until late February 2003. Twelve years. I find the report very worthy reading and a clear reminder of a practiced Iraqi apparatus of deceit against which we ineffectually wallowed. I rue walking this ground again. OTOH, I fully appreciate the gravity of the threat posed by Iran accomplishing that which eluded Iraq.
You should too.
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