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Thread: The Myth of Japanís Failure

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Lolwut. I suppose the UK, Aus, Can, NZ or even gulf countries don't exist.

    As for Japan, if their society is as closed as some people here make it out to be, they deserve to die out. I don't know enough about Japan to tell if this is true though.
    Careful, there, buddy. Facts can easily get in the way of a good xenophobic rant.

  2. #32
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Lolwut. I suppose the UK, Aus, Can, NZ or even gulf countries don't exist.

    As for Japan, if their society is as closed as some people here make it out to be, they deserve to die out. I don't know enough about Japan to tell if this is true though.
    I was speaking in the modern context.
    UK has a lot of issues with immigrants. I have been there for a couple of years way back before the financial crisis and even then people were angry.
    Australia and NZ also have rising levels of resentment. Heck most australians agree with their government's internment policies.
    I dont know much about Canada except for hearsay from others about the dislike of the locals for increased immigration especially of the big Sikh community.
    Gulf countries case is not immigration, its importing cheap disposable slaves from poor places in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and so on.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  3. #33
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Careful, there, buddy. Facts can easily get in the way of a good xenophobic rant.
    Careful there buddy your arrogance is showing, and it was not remotely a rant.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    Careful there buddy your arrogance is showing, and it was not remotely a rant.
    Careful there buddy, your ignorance is showing and you missed a good one by Vargas.

  5. #35
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Careful there buddy, your ignorance is showing and you missed a good one by Vargas.
    ???
    Vargas might have had some good points but i was not replying to him.
    Immigration worked for the US when the american dream was intact and many people from many countries could live together.
    It enabled them to concentrate talented and hard driving people in a way never seen before.
    But its over now, the rich dogs are back on top and slowly eradicating the uppity middle classes.
    I do concede that he might have a point, America is just so immense that everyone can live in their own sub section and never see someone not of their culture/ethnicity.

    But in smaller denser old settled societies, all that happens is separation and tension.

    My original reply was to Dor calling me xenophobic and ranting and not related to anything Vargas said.

    Plus...ignorance? Pot and kettle old son.

    Ya know what............................ forget it.
    We would just derail another thread with mutual antipathy.
    Last edited by bolo121; 13 Apr 15, at 10:17.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  6. #36
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    I was speaking in the modern context.
    UK has a lot of issues with immigrants. I have been there for a couple of years way back before the financial crisis and even then people were angry.
    Australia and NZ also have rising levels of resentment. Heck most australians agree with their government's internment policies.
    I dont know much about Canada except for hearsay from others about the dislike of the locals for increased immigration especially of the big Sikh community.
    Gulf countries case is not immigration, its importing cheap disposable slaves from poor places in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and so on.
    Why restrict yourself to the modern context? Is resentment to immigration a modern phenomenon? UK and especially USA, Canada, Aus and NZ cannot have been successful without their immigrants.

    Gulf countries case is not immigration, its importing cheap disposable slaves from poor places in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and so on.
    You know when you spout stupid shit like this, you are actually insulting millions of Indian immigrant professionals who have built successful lives in the GCC. The India-GCC relationship is far more than simple supplier-buyer one.

  7. #37
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    I restricted myself because we were talking about Japan importing people to fix its current issues.
    That US, Aus, Canada and NZ ancestors were able to overrun indigenous tribals and build wealthy nations is not related to that point.
    In modern times only the US got some good benefit from allowing people from all over.

    You know when you spout stupid shit like this, you are actually insulting millions of Indian immigrant professionals who have built successful lives in the GCC. The India-GCC relationship is far more than simple supplier-buyer one.
    I am a mallu with the usual countless number of relatives in gulf.
    It is slavery only for the vast majority in the labour camps out in the desert.
    I doubt the poor SOBs in Quatar are feeling particularly special.
    Even those lucky to work in offices can tell you countless stories of how the Arabs treat them.
    There is no great and special India-GCC relation.
    Last edited by bolo121; 14 Apr 15, at 04:55.
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  8. #38
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    I restricted myself because we were talking about Japan importing people to fix its current issues.
    That US, Aus, Canada and NZ ancestors were able to overrun indigenous tribals and build wealthy nations is not related to that point.
    In modern times only the US got some good benefit from allowing people from all over.
    Japan's issues are neither unique nor new. But even within the modern era, Aus, Can and NZ have benefitted enormously by ending white-only immigration in the past 50 years. Just like the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    I am a mallu with the usual countless number of relatives in gulf.
    It is slavery only for the vast majority in the labour camps out in the desert.
    I doubt the poor SOBs in Quatar are feeling particularly special.
    Even those lucky to work in offices can tell you countless stories of how the Arabs treat them.
    There is no great and special India-GCC relation.
    Who do you think runs the contracting companies that work those poor SOBs? Mallus, Gujjus, Pakistanis and other expats. If you think that's slavery, take a look at how unskilled labour is treated in our own country. And do look up the largest import and export partners of India if you haven't already, then tell me that the GCC doesn't mean anything for India.

  9. #39
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Japan's issues are neither unique nor new. But even within the modern era, Aus, Can and NZ have benefitted enormously by ending white-only immigration in the past 50 years. Just like the US.
    Who do you think runs the contracting companies that work those poor SOBs? Mallus, Gujjus, Pakistanis and other expats. If you think that's slavery, take a look at how unskilled labour is treated in our own country. And do look up the largest import and export partners of India if you haven't already, then tell me that the GCC doesn't mean anything for India.
    I disagree, immigration brought costs down for the elite and their companies at the cost of the rich nations middle classes. It stored up ethnic and religious tensions that will slowly get worse over time.
    As for your second point, yah people are greedy and exploited others to make money. I never went into the area of trade and foreign remittances so dont know what you mean by GCC doesnt mean anything for India. My point was about the people, they dont have any special relationship like you think.
    Gulf needed labourers and cubicle hobbits and we were poor enough and desperate enough to do it. Once we are no longer useful we have to leave.

    Some companies made money and India got forex due to remittances. The people in gulf did not enjoy any special relationship with the GCC they worked and saved and survived.
    One of the most common stories in Kerala is that of person goes to gulf, slogs for 30 to 40 yrs, then has to leave and dies soon after.
    In so many cases even for direct relatives of mine they never even set foot in the house they constructed in kerala before death.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  10. #40
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    I disagree, immigration brought costs down for the elite and their companies at the cost of the rich nations middle classes. It stored up ethnic and religious tensions that will slowly get worse over time.
    Immigration was the only way to keep the consumer market expanding. More people buying stuff = more money. DOR can explain this better than I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    As for your second point, yah people are greedy and exploited others to make money. I never went into the area of trade and foreign remittances so dont know what you mean by GCC doesnt mean anything for India. My point was about the people, they dont have any special relationship like you think.
    Gulf needed labourers and cubicle hobbits and we were poor enough and desperate enough to do it. Once we are no longer useful we have to leave.

    Some companies made money and India got forex due to remittances. The people in gulf did not enjoy any special relationship with the GCC they worked and saved and survived.
    One of the most common stories in Kerala is that of person goes to gulf, slogs for 30 to 40 yrs, then has to leave and dies soon after.
    In so many cases even for direct relatives of mine they never even set foot in the house they constructed in kerala before death.
    I can't believe I have to explain this to a mallu. Not all the mallus who went to the gelf are going back to India for good. 10-20 years ago, your story might have been true, but a lot has changed since then. Indians in the middle-east are there to stay. We won't be kicked out like the Yemenis and we won't be banned from entering like the BDeshis. We are simply too irreplaceable an asset.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    We are simply too irreplaceable an asset.
    No, you're not. How many Indians left Lybia?
    Chimo

  12. #42
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    No, you're not. How many Indians left Lybia?
    Libya isn't a gulf monarchy.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Libya isn't a gulf monarchy.
    And you think that matters. Qaddafy had a better hold than any Saudi King. He did not need Pakistani Regiments.
    Chimo

  14. #44
    Contributor cataphract's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    And you think that matters. Qaddafy had a better hold than any Saudi King. He did not need Pakistani Regiments.
    The Saudis have been running a country like a family business for 70+ years. Gaddhafi lasted what 40? Saudis might be evil, but they ain't stupid.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    The Saudis have been running a country like a family business for 70+ years.
    Oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Gaddhafi lasted what 40?
    For better or for worst, Qaddafy united his people/

    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    Saudis might be evil, but they ain't stupid.
    Pakistani Regiments.
    Chimo

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