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Thread: Finnish military pictures/videos

  1. #1
    Contributor mustavaris's Avatar
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    Finnish military pictures/videos

    Thought about a dedicated thread so here we go... enjoy

    Military police


    Finnish troops in Afghanistan:




































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    And then something "more Finnish"




























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    Last edited by mustavaris; 26 Dec 11, at 20:06.

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Are those AK-47?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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    Contributor mustavaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Are those AK-47?
    Our service rifle is an indigenous AK clone. Two of the most common variants are:

    RK-62



    RK-95



    Besdies those, a couple of other variants exists and we got East German and Russian AKMs and Chicom AK-47 clones in storages.

    The later has better sights, is able to use rifle grenades and is easier to be fitted with silencer and optics.

  7. #7

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    At one time the Finnish army was, perhaps, considered unexcelled in its individual training and preparedness for winter combat. The fieldcraft of the typical Finnish infantryman in winter combat seemed to me grounded in the primitive nature of the land and the relationship held between the individual soldier and that terrain. This, if correct, might have been based upon a largely rural/semi-rural population.

    How have Finnish demographics changed (if at all) and what impact has that had on the preparation of the individual soldier for combat in all seasons (but particularly winter) on his/her native terrain? Has Finnish individual excellence grown relative to, for instance, W.W.II. If so, have other nations built upon that excellence through shared training and closed any gap? We're well aware of the unpreparedness of both Soviet forces in the 1940 Soviet/Finnish war and, later, German troops deployed to both Russia and Finland. OTOH, there's no reason to presume that doctrine and training gaps weren't closed to Finnish standards of excellence over time.

    Do you consider Russian, Norwegian and Swedish troops to possess a similar acumen for winter combat? Have you had the opportunity to train with any of their forces? I'd be interested in your observations and, also, opinion of my generalized impressions.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    What I like about FDF is that's a rapid mobilization army.From open sources I observed you have ~3.5 billions euro as budget.How do you use it?How much goes for training,payments for the career soldiers,and how much for investments and maintenance?

    How much time do the recruits actually spend in the field?How much the reservists do in their refreshing courses?Do you make use of simulators,or you're still stuck in the Cold War wrt training?
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    At one time the Finnish army was, perhaps, considered unexcelled in its individual training and preparedness for winter combat. The fieldcraft of the typical Finnish infantryman in winter combat seemed to me grounded in the primitive nature of the land and the relationship held between the individual soldier and that terrain. This, if correct, might have been based upon a largely rural/semi-rural population.
    This is true, and the gap between different generations is real. On the other hand, majority of us still live in small towns/countryside/rural areas by big towns, we have 300 000 licensed hunters (over 5 % of the population) and fishing is much more common. Aprox 40 % of the households are armed.. Thus relatively speaking the foundament is good, but it is getting more and more polarized and the number of (young) people disconnected from the nature is rising.

    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    How have Finnish demographics changed (if at all) and what impact has that had on the preparation of the individual soldier for combat in all seasons (but particularly winter) on his/her native terrain? Has Finnish individual excellence grown relative to, for instance, W.W.II. If so, have other nations built upon that excellence through shared training and closed any gap? We're well aware of the unpreparedness of both Soviet forces in the 1940 Soviet/Finnish war and, later, German troops deployed to both Russia and Finland. OTOH, there's no reason to presume that doctrine and training gaps weren't closed to Finnish standards of excellence over time.
    Rapid urbanization is still going on. For an European nation we have relatively young population (number of births has been steady for the last 4 decades), but it is increasingly urban. One of the consequences is that the military has to teach skills that were once taken for granted and winter survival is one among them. The regional differencies are vast though, but Finland is more and more dependent on Boy Scouts (elementary schools!) and such organizations in order to maintain the required skill set. Operational capabilities in winter conditions are tested in Lappland: most of the units train there. If we look at the cold related injuries (and deaths), we faring better than before. A pessimist says that we ainīt pushing it to the limit anymore.. but all the troops that are supposed to fight in rural regions, spend weeks in the field during the coldest and wettest seasons of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    Do you consider Russian, Norwegian and Swedish troops to possess a similar acumen for winter combat? Have you had the opportunity to train with any of their forces? I'd be interested in your observations and, also, opinion of my generalized impressions.
    When I served Finnish military had very little training with others; the international cooperation was just beginning and the reservists like me do not participate in the international cooperation so.. But I have talked to many people who have served their respective countries and that includes many Russians and a few Swedes. Comparing to those, I would say that we spend a lot of time in the tents in the middle of nowhere and the traning is very much oriented towards "the real thing". And we shoot a lot. Going to the range at least once a week is the norm. - Russians spend much, much more time at the garrison doing reletively irrelevant stuff and have serious discipline issues. Their training, even during the last few years, seems to be very inefficient.

    I would love to say that we are tougher and better than the Swedes, but if we forget the different orientation of our militaries (peace keeping force vs national defence force), we are pretty comparable. Norwegian climate, conditions there and the purpose of their military differs from ours so heavily that the comparison is impossible to me.

    I have strong confidence in our training and military but I would be a fool if I believed that the gap between us and others hadnīt gotten smaller, much smaller. We have lost much of the "national advantage" and the others have improved their training and learned from the past experiences. Russians also have recent real world combat experience from the winter warfare.

    But a professional soldier whom I know IRL (and who has attended Russian military academy in officer exchange) told that he acknowledged that Finns are not what we used to be, but he said "Our tree hugging hippies and rastaheads are more than adequate for dealing with their army of alcoholics and junkies". That is what matters the most, how we fare when comparing to our potential foe. We might be mere shadows of our grandfathers in terms of rural survival, guts and such, but we are not facing the same (potential) enemy they did. I "know" what my grandfather and his fellow soldiers had to endure during the WWII and I cannot call it anything less than superhuman from modern point of view.

    But the Georgian war sent a warning signal through this country and has obviously contributed to our new doctrine. We are preparing for a war that begins slowly. Our current military is garrison based traning unit military, the war time units are formed after mobilization that takes weeks... the standing army is ready of course, but only during the later phases of the training one could call the conscript units combat ready.

    What is our first line of defence? All volunteer local defence companies (light infantry), few rapid reaction units that are randomly more or less ready... On the other hand, one has to add that the local defence troops are generally good. Those who make the contract have to fullfill the criteria for professional soldiers, they train in area that they would be defending, all seasons included and train with the second tier of local defence, the volunteers who have not made the contract (like me). Those folks are outdoors people, hunters, rural folks, retired professionals, but what is the most important thing: volunteer people who have chosen to train during their free time. If the whistle is blown, I know where I would go, with whom and what I would be a doing with what kind of gear.

  10. #10
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    Roughly quarter of the money is used to buy new gear, the wages account for somewhat over a quarter. The maintenance of conscripts requires less than 5 %.

    Time at the field depends on unit and luck. The field traning is something that is heavily dependent on budget issues... I do not know exact figures, but I know that when I served/after that they had real trouble with funding and the field days were cut. During one year the artillery regiment had four major drills (two-three weeks each), maybe half a dozen short ones (3-5 days) and random nights in the woods now and then. That was pretty average as far as I know. Recon and some other troops spent more time in the woods, but some of the units much, much less.

    The similators came into use during the 1990s and they are widely used as of today. It is/has been one of the key areas when they have developed more cost effective training methods.

    In 2009 aproximately 26 000 reservists were trained by ordering them into service, anything from a weekend up to over a week. Volunteer defence courses reached 25 000 reservists (includes both military and civil defence related traning) and the number of voluntary participants in war games was around 7000 (that includes local defence volunteers). Typically the newly trained reservists get a call to new training with the war time unit within year or two from their conscriptions and then every now and then til they are 30. NCOs more often than the rest and they keep getting the brown letters til they are 40 or so.

    In case of volunteers, it is up to us to decide and apply (yes, in many cases there are more people willing to come than there are slots in the training..). Those who have made contract are bound by it to serve certain amount of time and participate in major wargames at least once a year. Eg. there are two weekends in the forthcoming spring when there is a NSV course; I am applying for the training as those are the HMGs our vehicles are armed with, but they only take something like 12 people from the region. That would mean one weekend doing the basics and using simulators, then another at the firing range and such. If I am chosen, I will have four weekends of training in January-May.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    What I like about FDF is that's a rapid mobilization army.From open sources I observed you have ~3.5 billions euro as budget.How do you use it?How much goes for training,payments for the career soldiers,and how much for investments and maintenance?

    How much time do the recruits actually spend in the field?How much the reservists do in their refreshing courses?Do you make use of simulators,or you're still stuck in the Cold War wrt training?

  11. #11
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    Talvitaistelu = Winter Combat, official material from FDF.


  12. #12
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    Official video of our ground forces

    Last edited by mustavaris; 29 Dec 11, at 08:14.

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Thanks.I find it a brilliant system and if I were dictator I would implement it in my neck of the woods as well.
    Can you switch between active/reserve after you finished your mandatory service?Can officers&NCO's do that?Can reserve officers reach high ranks and hold bigger commands or those are reserved for pro's?
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Sounds a lot like National Guard or Territorial Defense in ex Yugoslavia.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Difference being that in large part is voluntary.Could work even better with a larger population base.There's simply no comparisson between an unmotivated conscript that thinks he's wasting a year of his life and one that does the job because he likes it or thinks he's doing his duty.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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