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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
    Difference being that in large part is voluntary.Could work even better with a larger population base.There's simply no comparisson between an unmotivated conscript that thinks he's wasting a year of his life and one that does the job because he likes it or thinks he's doing his duty.
    AFAIK both NG and TG model are voluntary - are pretty much the same, only you didn't have a job in TG besides few officers. We had reservists who were doing drills every couple of years for 1 week - regular army. TG were doing it twice a year.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • #17
      The conscription is taken before joining the professional force but if you are not willing to become full time professional, the conscription opens the way for applying to EU rapid reaction brigades (like the Nordic Battle Group that existed for a while) and then you can be in active duty for some time even without choosing professional career. Another option is to apply for peacekeeping missions/training. Otherwise than either of those, you will be placed in reserve where you can apply for the local defence company membership or volunteer for service, or just wait when (if) you get called into mandatory reservist training.

      The reservist officers can reach high ranks if they have civilian profession that supports promotion. Otherwise than that it is rare to reach higher ranks than needed for leading a company in tactical operations. The reserve officers are the backbone of the Finnish war time army, nevertheless. My brother who is professional administrator/leader/manager is a reserve major and was placed to old local defence army corps´HQ as an artillery officer, but I do not know what is his placement as of today as they have reformed/are reforming the old structures.

      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
      Thanks.I find it a brilliant system and if I were dictator I would implement it in my neck of the woods as well.
      Can you switch between active/reserve after you finished your mandatory service?Can officers&NCO's do that?Can reserve officers reach high ranks and hold bigger commands or those are reserved for pro's?

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      • #18
        Yes... the motivation level in the volunteer training I have participated in has been something out of this world when comparing to my conscript time. There is no unnecessery authority/ego tripping and hazing or anything like that is non-existent.

        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
        Difference being that in large part is voluntary.Could work even better with a larger population base.There's simply no comparisson between an unmotivated conscript that thinks he's wasting a year of his life and one that does the job because he likes it or thinks he's doing his duty.

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        • #19
          One more thing; in theory we have universal conscription for men, but the reality is that of selective consription. Some draft areas do not accept up to 40 % of the age group into service although such level is exceptional. Usually 10-20 % are relieved from the duty, get service postponed due to legitimate reason or choose civilian or unarmed service.

          Aproximately 75-85 % of the each age group is sent to the training units, of whom 10 - 20 % fail to finish the service or are relieved from the duty due to various reasons. Special units have their own selection processes and requirements: those include (at least, writing off my head) military police, snipers, airborne troops, special coastal infantry (combat divers) and special border (recon) troops.

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          • #20
            Mustavaris, if you´ll find something about your new doctrine in english, could you please post it? since i´m from southern estonia, i understand a very little finnish
            If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

            Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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            • #21
              Nothing is out yet in English, but I can translate some of the more essential parts of the official releases.

              Originally posted by BD1 View Post
              Mustavaris, if you´ll find something about your new doctrine in english, could you please post it? since i´m from southern estonia, i understand a very little finnish

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              • #22
                Thanks for sharing... hey that is my camera!

                Originally posted by mustavaris View Post








                “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                • #23
                  you Mika Häkkinen?
                  If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

                  Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mustavaris View Post
                    Nothing is out yet in English, but I can translate some of the more essential parts of the official releases.
                    would appreciate it!
                    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

                    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BD1 View Post
                      you Mika Häkkinen?
                      no, pointing that I have the same camera.
                      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mustavaris View Post
                        One more thing; in theory we have universal conscription for men, but the reality is that of selective consription. Some draft areas do not accept up to 40 % of the age group into service although such level is exceptional. Usually 10-20 % are relieved from the duty, get service postponed due to legitimate reason or choose civilian or unarmed service.

                        Aproximately 75-85 % of the each age group is sent to the training units, of whom 10 - 20 % fail to finish the service or are relieved from the duty due to various reasons. Special units have their own selection processes and requirements: those include (at least, writing off my head) military police, snipers, airborne troops, special coastal infantry (combat divers) and special border (recon) troops.
                        I have a friend who did nuclear science at Uni and had to do military service. He enjoyed it.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by xinhui View Post
                          no, pointing that I have the same camera.
                          i should have added this - :)
                          If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

                          Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

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                          • #28
                            Great thread. Really appreciative for the reply, Mustavaris. Also really impressed with the videos. They're propaganda, of course. Still, their production quality was excellent and the scripts were a thoughtful peek into Finnish combat ops during wintertime. I liked how the producers connected the past to the present with footage from W.W.II.
                            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                            • #29
                              Yes, unlike in Russia (before? still today?), here the university studies do not relieve you from the duties. You can get the beginning of the service postponed due to almost any kind of unfinished education as the military does not mind getting people with civilian profession. Especially people with education from health or technical sectors are more than welcome. For example a friend of mine who was engineer (electronics) served in ELINT related development program as he had specialized in encryption/etc during his education and all of my friends who are health care professionals have been serving as medics or when having higher degree, at military hospitals/medical units.

                              Originally posted by snapper View Post
                              I have a friend who did nuclear science at Uni and had to do military service. He enjoyed it.

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                              • #30
                                Thank you! Yes.. the new generation of the videos are professional, but as you mentioned, propaganda. The military has more or less constant PR campaign and is very involved with the wider society. Citizen military needs to be. The past is very present in FDF: it is most likely the most history conscious institution in this country (although that does not require much these days..).

                                Originally posted by S2 View Post
                                Great thread. Really appreciative for the reply, Mustavaris. Also really impressed with the videos. They're propaganda, of course. Still, their production quality was excellent and the scripts were a thoughtful peek into Finnish combat ops during wintertime. I liked how the producers connected the past to the present with footage from W.W.II.
                                Last edited by mustavaris; 30 Dec 11,, 06:03.

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