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Israel's Next (And last?) War

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  • Israel's Next (And last?) War

    The following is a piece I wrote:

    While much has been said recently about the phenomenon of discrimination against women, it seems that a new high (or low) was reached when on Friday reports broke of Haredi men in Beit Shemesh spitting on an 8 year old religious girl who apparently wasn't religious enough for their tastes.

    While the Haredim claim that the reason behind this discrimination against women in the public sphere is because men are weak and easily tempted, there are some issues that loom even larger than just discrimination if that is the reason why grown Haredi men would abuse an 8 year old child.

    I'm going to take a novel step here, and I'm going to claim that this entire fracas is not the fault of the Haredi community for religious extremism or the secular community for sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. I submit that both communities are to blame, but for entirely different reasons.

    I would suggest that this entire story is nothing more than power games. The first Baron Acton wrote to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

    Can we deny that Rabbis are great men? Some of the Rabbis today have knowledge that spans the entire width and breadth of both Jewish scriptures as well as modern philosophy. Therein lays the problem.

    Many Rabbis and Yeshiva students have been studying for years to assume a position in the community as a leader. They have been told ever since they were young that by studying God's word and laws, they would be able to better themselves. All good and well, but what happened next is something that we should have seen coming, or at least taken steps against once we did see it coming: These Rabbis and Yeshiva students suddenly got the impression that bettering one's self by extension makes them better than everyone else. When the entire community believes that, who's going to tell them otherwise? After all, these young men are training to become the leaders of the community.

    And so, for all the right reasons, the wrong results ensued. Indeed, hundreds of years ago and even well into the 18th century is was important for there to be a strong religious figurehead to lead the Jewish community in the Diaspora. With intermarriage, assimilation and persecution surrounding Diaspora Jews, the Rabbi truly was needed as a flag and banner that the community could rally around. But today, is that figurehead truly needed?

    Today, every single Jewish child that wants a Jewish education has a myriad of options to choose from, many of them not far from where they live. Even outside of Israel one can't deny the immense and massive Jewish communities in France, the UK and the USA and elsewhere. One can travel to the farthest reaches of the globe (perhaps excluding the Arctic regions) and there will be Chabbad Hasidim there with kosher food and a place to touch base and reconnect with Judaism.

    Looking back, however, as these communities grew, so did the power of the Rabbis, because no one had ever attempted to keep the Rabbis in check. Today the leader of even a medium sized Hasidic Hatzer has hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars at his disposal. The Satmar Hasidut has assets worth approximately half a BILLION dollars, yet Kiryat Yoel, the town in New York founded by the Satmar Rabbi after WWII holds the distinction of being the most impoverished city in the USA, with over two-thirds of the members of the community living below the poverty line.

    I'm not suggesting that all Rabbis are corrupt robber barons who care nothing for the people who look up to them, but it's getting harder and harder to not reach that conclusion.

    What was the secular community doing all this time? Absolutely nothing, and that is where they are to blame. They didn't limit the Rabbi's power once they saw there was no need for it anymore. Quite the contrary, the secular community encouraged this, starting with Israel's first leader, the extremely secular David Ben-Gurion. He needed the support of the religious leaders when the state was young, and in turn, those that studied Torah as their living were given a pass from serving in the IDF. Today that particular decision has led to thousands of the Haredi community not serving, while their secular and even their religious brethren put their lives on hold (and on the line) for 3 years in order to protect those studying.

    That is just one example. What makes the entire matter worse, aside from the fact that the secular community allowed this to happen, is that now the Rabbis have so much power that even if they wanted to there's practically nothing they can do about it. The secular community has been hoist on its own petard.

    There is but one course of action for both sides, and that course is change. The secular community must choose a side, either bringing forth all the power they can to bear on the Hasidic community and demand that they change their ways, which will lead to a war between the two sides, or they can choose to separate entirely from the Haredi community. All state run services will be denied the Haredi community and if they refuse to accept the government's demands, will no longer be granted the government's favor.

    The Haredi community also has a choice to make: They can choose to change their ways from inside without external interference and intervening or they can choose to protect their right to decide how to live their lives until the very end, regardless of how backwards it is perceived as by the rest of the Israeli society, which while admirable is also quite foolish, from an objective point of view. Not all progress is good, true, but to willingly keep themselves in the past is even worse.

    There is a third choice available to both groups, but it is highly unlikely that either group will choose to take advantage of it. This choice is the most logical choice, the one that guarantees both sides the most return at the end of the day for the least effort. Of course, I'm talking about compromise.

    Given that the Rabbis have shown time and again that they consider themselves above the rest of not only the secular community but their own community as well, should it come as a surprise to anyone that the secular community is wary and tired of dealing with the Rabbis and the Haredi community? The Rabbis have shown time and again that they have no issues with abusing their power to further their own goals even against other religious Jews.

    In conclusion, while it may seem a bitter pill, unless something drastically changes and soon, we are headed towards a civil war. It may not be as violent or as deadly in the physical realm as other civil wars or "regular" wars fought around the world, but the consequences will have much in common: Suffering, destruction of community and culture and plentiful amounts of sorrow to be handed out and received by both sides. Would that it were not so, but both sides seem eager for this confrontation, so all that is determined is to see who is left standing at the end and how the victors will feel with themselves once the dust settles.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

  • #2
    Unless someone kicks your ass or you kick other's butts it looks like you get so bored you turn on yourselves.Chill out guys and enjoy life.Well,at least tell the fanatics that,even if they won't listen.
    Let me guess.The Haredi have tons of kids,while the seculars have fewer.Give it another 20 years and they win by default.
    And please correct me if I'm wrong,since Israel is not my interest.The elite combat units see an increase of religious recruits compared to what it was 20-30 years ago.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #3
      There has been an increase, but there is a difference between the religious communities where many enlist into combat units and even sign on as officers, and the ultra-Orthodox, the Haredim, that don't serve at all but sponge off the rest of the population. This is not something new, this has been going on for quite a while. Last year over 10,000 of us marched against discriminatory laws that elevated the Haredim at the expense of the rest of us. I was there.
      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
        The following is a piece I wrote:
        Assuming you want honest feed back.

        I'm going to take a novel step here, and I'm going to claim that this entire fracas is not [just] the fault of the Haredi community for religious extremism or the secular community for sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. I submit that both communities are to blame, but for entirely different reasons.
        I would suggest that this entire story is nothing more than power games. The first Baron Acton wrote to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
        attacking an eight year old girl is more than games. Spit rapidly escalates to kicking to stoning to horror.

        Can we deny that Rabbis are great men? Some of the Rabbis today have knowledge that spans the entire width and breadth of both Jewish scriptures as well as modern philosophy: therein lays the problem.
        Great might be a bad word choice, as great usually entails accomplishment in the public sphere. Learnded might be a choice. I also think you might wish to avoid the accusatory you (we) since many will in fact deny that Rabbis are great. Also you almost hit a home run here but it drifted across the foul line. Namely how the ultra-orthodox have not stayed true to the spirit of the scripture in the modern age but instead have cast themselves an bigoted anachronisms of the past.

        Many Rabbis and Yeshiva students have been studying for years to assume a [leadership] position in the community as a leader [delete]. They have been told ever since they were young that by studying God's word and laws, they would be able to better themselves. All good and well, but what happened next is something that we should have seen coming, or at least taken steps against once we did see it coming: These Rabbis and Yeshiva students suddenly [suddenly or developed?] got the impression that bettering one's self by extension makes them better than everyone else. When the entire community believes that, who's going to tell them otherwise? After all, these young men are training to become the leaders of the community.
        Building on my last comment in the previous section- does the government have a role in allowing them to remain mired in a past and false reading of the scriptures that creates a bigoted community? Do the protections afforded them- not just in avoiding military service, but in military protections in the occupied areas, special laws and a political voice far exceeding their numbers have a role as well. Which brings up the question- can Israel remain a Jewish state, but not an ultra orthodox Jewish state.

        And so, for all the right reasons, the wrong results ensued. Indeed, hundreds of years ago and even well into the 18th century is was important for there to be a strong religious figurehead to lead the Jewish community in the Diaspora. With intermarriage, assimilation and persecution surrounding Diaspora Jews, the Rabbi truly was needed as a flag and banner that the community could rally around. But today, is that figurehead truly needed?
        I think I understand where your coming from and why you used the word choice you did. However, flag and banner imply a rallying, rather than a tending. Iconography from Palestine such as a farmer tending the ancient olive trees to keep them live and productive, or a teacher who passes on wisdom and cultural identity from generation to generation in the spirit of those who kept the faith alive in Babylon, or even a modern reference like the smith who kept the ancient links of the chain of Judaism from Moses forward intact and unbroken.

        Today, every single Jewish child that wants a Jewish education has a myriad of options to choose from, many of them not far from where they live. Even outside of Israel one can't deny the immense and massive Jewish communities in France, the UK and the USA and elsewhere. One can travel to the farthest reaches of the globe (perhaps excluding the Arctic regions) and there will be Chabbad Hasidim there with kosher food and a place to touch base and reconnect with Judaism.
        Excluding obviously the path from the East Bank of the Jordan River to the Iranian border.

        Looking back, however, as these communities grew, so did the power of the Rabbis, because no one had ever attempted to keep the Rabbis in check. Today the leader of even a medium sized Hasidic Hatzer has hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars at his disposal. The Satmar Hasidut has assets worth approximately half a BILLION dollars, yet Kiryat Yoel, the town in New York founded by the Satmar Rabbi after WWII holds the distinction of being the most impoverished city in the USA, with over two-thirds of the members of the community living below the poverty line.
        I think you begin to derail here a little bit.It implies that all religious communities are corrupt.

        I'm not suggesting that all Rabbis are corrupt robber barons who care nothing for the people who look up to them, but it's getting harder and harder to not reach that conclusion.
        More cars sliding off the rails. After all if religious leaders should not be politicians- ie the state's leadership should be secular, then it becomes hard to argue that the state should, could or can be religiously themed. Since you use the generic rabbi, rather than a more qualified description the obvious inference is all rabbis... don't know if you see my point.

        What was the secular community doing all this time? Absolutely nothing,
        other than fending off hostile neighbors, rebuilding after the Holocaust, trying to save other persecuted Jews and building an economic and political system for modern Israel... Might consider a bit of rephrasing to something other than nothing- perhaps distraction.

        and that is where they are to blame. They didn't limit the Rabbi's power once they saw there was no need for it anymore. Quite the contrary, the secular community encouraged this, starting with Israel's first leader, the extremely secular David Ben-Gurion. He needed the support of the religious leaders when the state was young, and in turn, those that studied Torah as their living were given a pass from serving in the IDF. Today that particular decision has led to thousands of the Haredi community not serving, while their secular and even their religious brethren put their lives on hold (and on the line) for 3 years in order to protect those studying.
        You verge on greatness here.... should Hasidic men be required to serve in the IDF so that are forced to see their fellow Jews and other citizens of Israel as brethren rather than lessers and servants?

        That is just one example. What makes the entire matter worse, aside from the fact that the secular community allowed this to happen, is that now the Rabbis have so much power that even if they wanted to there's practically nothing they can do about it. The secular community has been hoisted on its own petard.
        Who is they the rabbis who can't transform their own power, or the secular part of the nation?

        There is but one course of action for both sides, and that course is change. The secular community must choose a side, either bringing forth all the power they can to bear on the Hasidic community and demand that they change their ways, which will lead to a war between the two sides, or they can choose to separate entirely from the Haredi community. All state run services will be denied the Haredi community and if they refuse to accept the government's demands, will no longer be granted the government's favor.
        If the power cannot be checked as you state above... Also you use course twice in a sentence, consider something like only one option...

        The Haredi community also has a choice to make: They can choose to change their ways from inside without external interference and intervening or they can choose to protect their right to decide how to live their lives until the very end, regardless of how backwards it is perceived as by the rest of the Israeli society, which while admirable is also quite foolish, from an objective point of view. Not all progress is good, true, but to willingly keep themselves in the past is even worse.
        This locked in past as part and parcel of the problem should be introduced earlier.

        There is a third choice available to both groups, but it is highly unlikely that either group will choose to take advantage of it. This choice is the most logical choice, the one that guarantees both sides the most return at the end of the day for the least effort. Of course, I'm talking about compromise.
        If there is only one course, where did these choices come from?

        Given that the Rabbis have shown time and again that they consider themselves above the rest of not only the secular community but their own community as well, should it come as a surprise to anyone that the secular community is wary and tired of dealing with the Rabbis and the Haredi community? The Rabbis have shown time and again that they have no issues with abusing their power to further their own goals even against other religious Jews.
        Boo!!!!! You said the word compromise... so I was expecting suggestions, not another tirade against rabbis. It throws your pacing off.

        In conclusion, while it may seem a bitter pill, unless something drastically changes and soon, we are headed towards a civil war. It may not be as violent or as deadly in the physical realm as other civil wars or "regular" wars fought around the world, but the consequences will have much in common: Suffering, destruction of community and culture and plentiful amounts of sorrow to be handed out and received by both sides. Would that it were not so, but both sides seem eager for this confrontation, so all that is determined is to see who is left standing at the end and how the victors will feel with themselves once the dust settles.
        That closing would be a lot stronger if the compromise you hinted at was fleshed out.
        Last edited by zraver; 26 Dec 11,, 06:31.

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        • #5
          In conclusion, while it may seem a bitter pill, unless something drastically changes and soon, we are headed towards a civil war. It may not be as violent or as deadly in the physical realm as other civil wars or "regular" wars fought around the world, but the consequences will have much in common: Suffering, destruction of community and culture and plentiful amounts of sorrow to be handed out and received by both sides. Would that it were not so, but both sides seem eager for this confrontation, so all that is determined is to see who is left standing at the end and how the victors will feel with themselves once the dust settles.
          Victory for secular at the end of perceived (anticipated?) war will guaranty security and longevity of the state of Israel, other wise another front will open up called Arab/Muslim Israelis. In Haredims views they don't belong there and should not be tolerated.
          Last edited by Aryajet; 29 Dec 11,, 01:34.

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          • #6
            I know what would happen if one of those saps ever spit on my 8 year old daughter or any other daughter and intimidated her. Religion or no religion, law or no law.

            Daddy would make the greatest US baseball players look like bat boys. Or the most notorious western outlaws seem like slow handed choir boys.

            I have never once feared my religion, only some of those men that represent it. At that point I have no fear.
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 29 Dec 11,, 05:32.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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            • #7
              Ben, first of all, well written piece: clearly sets forth the situation, the ramifications and potential solutions. I liked the line to the effect that studying to better oneself does not make one better than everyone else.

              It seems strange to me that members of this minority community refuse to participate in the military that provides for its security. What about
              political debates bearing on national security? Do they participate in those?

              The only criticism I have of your piece is assumption that civil war might erupt if this community were to lose its privileged status. If they resorted to civil war, they would stand to lose everything, including their country. A distracted and weakened Israel would be prime picking for her enemies.
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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              • #8
                If these Haredim refuse all military training - how well would they fare in a civil war? Would they spit at and read texts to the people fighting against them? Would they throw stones? Would they hire mercinaries to fight for them? It certainly sounds like a terrible mess.
                Last edited by USSWisconsin; 29 Dec 11,, 19:41.
                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                • #9
                  The demographic advantage appears to lie with the religious types... Realisticly the longer this remains a stalemate the more the advantage passes to them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                    Ben, first of all, well written piece: clearly sets forth the situation, the ramifications and potential solutions. I liked the line to the effect that studying to better oneself does not make one better than everyone else.

                    It seems strange to me that members of this minority community refuse to participate in the military that provides for its security. What about
                    political debates bearing on national security? Do they participate in those?

                    The only criticism I have of your piece is assumption that civil war might erupt if this community were to lose its privileged status. If they resorted to civil war, they would stand to lose everything, including their country. A distracted and weakened Israel would be prime picking for her enemies.
                    Agree JAD. Well written piece BR. I also agree to a point with JAD on the civil war stuff. Is the real threat from the Haredim, or is it more likely to come from (or at least be sparked by) settler communities in the event of widspread forced removal from West bank settlements?
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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