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Hey Indians, want some no questions asked yellowcake?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    I'm just wondering what Indian posters think your government's reaction would be if Australia asked for finished nuclear weapons and missiles, plus nuclear know how, with you for under the table shipments of yellowcake for your nuclear weapons program?
    Would imagine they'd think you had a good sense of humour :)

    The premise is so dodgy that its hard to imagine it having anything to do with Gillards recent change of mind over selling us yellowcake. You'd think we'd make a good candidate given we've not signed the NPT but I don't think we can go down the AQ Khan route. It would be a complete repudiation & contradiction of a stance we've maintained for decades. One which got us out of the doghouse.

    Can you recall anytime when such a deal was operationalised between any two countries. Literally selling working nukes ?

    What usually happens is a base is setup and nuke assets on them are on call whenever and belong to the base commander. Pakistan & the Saudis gets mentioned very often though i think the US would be first in the line there.

    Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    You see, I'm hoping that one day befor it is too late that Australia will wake up to the fact that we can't rely on the US to be willing to lose a city over us by holding true on the 'nuclear umbrella', if ever we had a conflict with China.
    There is point to make here, China isn't going to lob a nuke at you unless you manage to get within spitting distance of Beijing. They cannot conceivably nuke you on any other pretext as it would make them a target by the other nuke powers. If China ever did threaten such it would be no more than a bluff. Conventional is fair game, you need to have counters for that.

    Thats the theory and if that does not satisify you then you will have to get your people to allow the US to stock some nukes on your territory. IIANM they have some in Diego Garcia or did. Bear in mind what applies to the Chinese applies to you also and all the other nuke powers barring the US & Russia. Thats the general gist. There's a couple of excellent threads here on nukes that go into more detail.

    Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    By shipping you yellowcake from say a secret source on defence land acqured for 'training', we could keep it outside the NPT inspection treaty process so you can build bombs with it. We ould even fly in vetted Indian miners (with training) to avoid the secret getting out here. It would benefit us by allowing payments to be made outside our budget approprations process, which is transparent.
    Your yellowcake will end up in our civilian reactors and the IAEA is going to be keeping a very close eye on them. Forget any diversions.

    Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    Once we have our missiles we can announce that we are joining you in the non-aligned movement, transport weapons grade uranium between us openly and generally ignore all the complaints it would generate and other peoples wars, just like you do now.
    Does this work for you?
    You're a NPT member as well as a NSG member i'd imagine other powers would have some serious issues with what you've suggested before Indian even gets into the picture.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Dec 11,, 02:04.

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    • #17
      We tend to develop a holier-than-thou attitute in such matters. India would never hand over a readymade nuke to Australia or any other nation.

      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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      • #18
        Why should we sell?

        The only reasons we would were if we really needed the money or if the yellowcake were not available elsewhere or if you were the only ones who had something we really needed from an existential perspective as barter.

        It could and would probably work if India were to place their own nukes under Indian control onto Australian soil. For your defense and our own. Expanding deterrent.

        But then you have that option already with the US, so the fact that you ask this question probably points to a drift in confidence or the fact that you feel you would be able to better control an Indian nuke umbrella to your prime advantage versus a US one.
        Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Dec 11,, 05:45.

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        • #19
          Considering the stance the US is taking with the whole Falklands situation with one of their closest allies, I am definitely starting to have some serious reservations regarding us relying on America's nuclear umbrella down the track in a worst case scenario. It also seems from the attitude expressed lately that nations should be looking after themselves first and foremost without relying on someone else to bail them out if the need arose.

          My civilian guess is that we probably do have the scientific know how to be able to put together a working nuclear bomb (we certainly aren't short of uranium) but then again I could well be way off. Of course we would also need to invest in delivery systems and everything else that entails so im guessing its not exactly an 'easy' task.

          Edit: Actually I think by the time China had the conventional means to seriously threaten Australia that they would no doubt have access to enough nuclear weapons to make our small stockpile a bit silly considering we probably couldn't hit the Chinese mainland with many anyway.
          Last edited by Cedz; 15 Dec 11,, 05:57.

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          • #20
            The concept of "protection" remains the same from grimy drug infested streets of gangland to the cut and thrust of corporate boardroom warfare to geopolitical international balance of power.

            Protecting your allies by committing your own manpower and money is simply good business. The day you stop, the ally you fail to protect of course is screwed, but so are you as the others lose confidence and start drifting towards others who can and will.

            If you want to be the Godfather/Sarkar/Anna, you have to act like one. To your last penny if need be.
            Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Dec 11,, 06:10.

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            • #21
              *To date the USN CG's (Cruiser Guided Missle) are the only sea going platform to ever target and shoot down a satellite from orbit within a very, very small window of time with one shot and it was a "collision" shot, not an armed missle. That was with its own onboard systems. They have only improved since then.

              http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/25236
              Last edited by Dreadnought; 15 Dec 11,, 06:49.
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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              • #22
                The concept of "protection" remains the same from grimy drug infested streets of gangland to the cut and thrust of corporate boardroom warfare to geopolitical international balance of power.

                Protecting your allies by committing your own manpower and money is simply good business. The day you stop, the ally you fail to protect of course is screwed, but so are you as the others lose confidence and start drifting towards others who can and will.

                If you want to be the Godfather/Sarkar/Anna, you have to act like one. To your last penny if need be.
                Have to agree with this. My opinion is that sometimes as a nation you have to get involved in things you may not otherwise because it means backing up an ally in their time of need. It might not align with your present day foreign interests but in terms of future national security it sure as hell is more important.

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                • #23
                  So why didn't Britain and the US assist India in the Sino-Indian War?
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

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                  • #24
                    hey we want one too!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                      So why didn't Britain and the US assist India in the Sino-Indian War?
                      Since when have Britain and the US been Indian allies?

                      Since when has India looked to Britain and the US for protection?

                      Our closest ally to date has been the USSR/Russia. And even from them we never received any direct shooting support in any of the wars we have fought.

                      We are just grateful that their subs made their presence known.

                      Nixon's balls = "Property of Mrs. Indira Gandhi"
                      Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Dec 11,, 07:40.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                        *To date the USN CG's (Cruiser Guided Missle) are the only sea going platform to ever target and shoot down a satellite from orbit within a very, very small window of time with one shot and it was a "collision" shot, not an armed missle. That was with its own onboard systems. They have only improved since then.

                        Layer 8: US Navy shoots down failing satellite on first try
                        Why is it important the satellite to be shot down from sea?

                        I can recall in the last few years Chinese shot down their own satellite more then once - from mainland.
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Aussiegunner View Post
                          You kept your own nuclear development secret for a long time.
                          I think research on nuclear technology was not much of a secret, while testing the device could be considered, few days back I remember reading an article which states that the Gadaffi regime had requested India to let them know the nuclear know how, but was disappointed apparently.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            Why is it important the satellite to be shot down from sea?

                            I can recall in the last few years Chinese shot down their own satellite more then once - from mainland.
                            My ideas, perhaps someone has more insight. More flexibility about the postioning of the ABM launchers? No issues with host countries wanting the launchers removed? The farther from the target that the missile is destroyed - the less change of its warhead still landing on the target country?
                            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                            • #29
                              Doktor, no one here doubts the US's technological capability to protect an ally should they want to.

                              I think the Australians are now worried about what happens if the next US President finds China to be a close friend and an important non-NATO ally.

                              And should the Australians not want to negotiate with the Chinese at that point in time.

                              If the enemy of an enemy is a friend, what does that make the friend of an enemy?
                              Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Dec 11,, 08:53.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vsdoc View Post
                                The concept of "protection" remains the same from grimy drug infested streets of gangland to the cut and thrust of corporate boardroom warfare to geopolitical international balance of power.

                                Protecting your allies by committing your own manpower and money is simply good business. The day you stop, the ally you fail to protect of course is screwed, but so are you as the others lose confidence and start drifting towards others who can and will.

                                If you want to be the Godfather/Sarkar/Anna, you have to act like one. To your last penny if need be.
                                VS doc - well, its nice to use boombastik langauge and philosophize with due attention & respect to nixon and Indira Gandhi; what I percieve OR rather what you "come across" as is someone who has missed the "meat of the matter" and its just another dose of your shallow opinion....

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