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Falklands nonsense again?

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  • #61
    Aussiegunner Reply

    "...There is simply no way the US would have put in the same effort in the GWOT if London had been attacked."

    How the fcuk would you know? Because you say so?

    "Same effort"? As if we were attacked or same effort that Great Britain exerted on our behalf? I'm pretty clear that I believe my government would have been prepared to make our forces available for operations in Afghanistan should the British government requested our assistance doing so.

    "...Bush had enough trouble convincing the American public of the merits of what he did even when it was for the US."

    More idiocy. Had Bush NOT gone into Afghanistan following 9/11 he'd likely have been impeached.

    "...The normal course of events is that if an ally needs assistance, they ask for it..."

    The normal course of events isn't being discussed here. We're discussing the defense of the FALKLANDS. Nothing normal about an archipeligo buried thousands of miles from their motherland. If Australia and Canada feel this is so important then you'd make the offer of assistance now as a POLITICAL act BEFORE hostilities ensue. That offer would only be useful if announced your intention to provide additional forces, if desired, to be based there.

    Otherwise there isn't squat that Canada or Australia might do once bullets start flying.

    After-the-fact will be a day late and a dollar short.

    You're thoroughly out of your element.

    Laughably so.

    "...With the amount of time you all spend bitching about him, I thought you'd get that."

    Ummm...you'll be hard-pressed to find any comment about the President by myself that includes "treacherous" or "fuckwit". Whatever his intellect might be I daresay it shines in comparison to you.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    • #62
      OK, i really do not want to close this thread, but PLEASE keep passions in check.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Chogy View Post

        I think one of the reasons the USA didn't send a Marine expeditionary unit and a carrier to the Falklands was because it was not wanted by GB. Was not asked for. Something else to consider... the Falklands war revolved around air. The Argentinian threat was primarily air. And GB had, to counter it... the harrier, which had no A-A missiles until the USA delivered the AIM-9L and the technicians to fit it to the harrier in a crash program. Without the Lima, the harriers would have been helpless to prevent the Argentines from pounding the British warships. GB woud have been limited to ship and shore based SHORAD, and that didn't prove all that effective, with the Argentinians flying at 20 meters over the water.

        Margaret Thatcher said in her memoirs that without the Sidewinder "supplied to us by US Defence Minister Caspar Weinberger, we could never have got back the Falklands."

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        • #64
          Aussiegunner Reply

          This deserves special note. Without question this is your view and not shared by the Australian government.

          "...Big enough to justify our commitment to the GWOT? No. The most important implication for us of AQ is radicalisation in Indonesia, which we mainly influence with foriegn aid and diplomacy... Anything but cold calculus might seem too foriegn for you to understand, but I am telling you there is more than that at play..."

          Anything but cold calculus at play in the above comment is notably conspicuous by its absence. I'm only grateful that your government doesn't view matters in the same narrowly-conceived light as you.

          "Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard has said the killing of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has hurt the terrorist group, but not finished it, emphasizing that the fight against terrorism must continue.

          'Whilst Al-Qaeda has been hurt today, al-Qaeda is not finished. Our war against terrorism must continue,' AFP reported Gillard as saying on Monday."

          Australia: Al Qaeda Not Finished-PressTV May 2, 2011
          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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          • #65
            Aussiegunner,

            AQ attacks on US before 9/11:
            1993, Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others.
            1998, Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs near 2 U.S. embassies. 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) dead and about 4,500 injured.
            2000, Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged. 17 sailors killed.
            2001, Sep. 11 NYC, was 4th AQ's attack on USA.

            Which lead to 2001, Sep. 12, NAC's, the NATO Alliance's governing body, to meet in a special session. For the first time since NATO's founding, the council decided unanimously to invoke Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, saying that the attack on 9/11 was not just an attack on the United States, but an attack on all the members of NATO.

            In my head I don't have doubts that NATO would have done the same if London was hit as bad as NYC.

            You must understand Americans, in their view they build massive debts to invest in the military, while others are not as committed.

            However, if London, Canberra or Ottawa ring D.C. asking for help, I doubt they would be turned down.
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Doktor View Post

              However, if London, Canberra or Ottawa ring D.C. asking for help, I doubt they would be turned down.
              Provided the phone isn't answered by Jeane Kirkpatrick

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              • #67
                Put it like this , if the Argies wanna Bargie again ( I hope not tho ) Im sure they will receive a warm welcome like before . We are very overstretched in the UK involved in the WOT and help maybe req ;) ,,,,,,, but that's another story :whome:

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                • #68
                  Gentlemen,what are we talking here?The Taliban would be just as gone from power if AQ would have struck another country that bad.But there is no we would have stayed there the way we did if Netherlands or Italy would have been the victims.

                  S2 Sir,it happens I see a reason for our troops being there.It's in our long term interest and it also happens to be the right thing to do,unless bastards that use 10 years olds kids to test their mines deserve to live and I missed the memo. Call it a happy coincidence.
                  It also happens I don't believe Russia is an existential threat to my nation the way USSR was.Our friend BD1 thinks in a different way,but he also benefits from a common border with them.If I'm right,no need to risk ending life on Earth for the likes of me.If I'm wrong,I expect you to be ready to end life on Earth,just as it was the case with Germany 20+ years ago.We wanted to join NATO,you agreed and signed the paper.

                  Back to our common interest,doing the right thing for the wrong reason still beats doing nothing.The average politician in former Combloc may think he's buying American protection with his soldiers lives.One was definetely proved wrong.
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #69
                    Remember this Christmas: When you're eating your dinner, smiling and laughing, that in another house somewhere, there's an empty chair where a Hero should be sitting. They gave up their life so that you can sit with your family. So light a candle for the Heroes that did not make it home and for those who are still serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and all over!

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by tankie View Post
                      Remember this Christmas: When you're eating your dinner, smiling and laughing, that in another house somewhere, there's an empty chair where a Hero should be sitting. They gave up their life so that you can sit with your family. So light a candle for the Heroes that did not make it home and for those who are still serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and all over!
                      and the Falklands ;)

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
                        and the Falklands ;)
                        yup

                        Iraq, Afghanistan and all over! ;)

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                          Argentine patrol vessels have boarded 12 Spanish boats, operating under fishing licences issued by the Falkland Islands, for operating “illegally” in disputed waters in recent weeks.
                          If they really had the balls, they'd board British boats.
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                            If they really had the balls, they'd board British boats.
                            Their balls have "Property of Ms. Thatcher" engraved.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Chogy View Post
                              This bickering seems petty and more appropriate for other defense forums I've been a member of. The nations of Australia, USA, GB, Canada, and NZ, are as close to brother and sister as nations possibly can be. The last thing we need in the decades to come is division within our ranks.
                              Amen brother and pass the salt.
                              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                              Leibniz

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                                Never underestimate the Asians Americans power to make jihad in a foreign country.

                                I will tip you over if it's the last thing I do..
                                C,mon then muscles :whome:

                                Edward Miller Jr.'s Photos | Facebook

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