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Russia Sends Aircraft Carrier and Warships to Syria

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  • #46
    snapper, et al,

    Are we talking about exercising our right as "World Police" again?
    Originally posted by snapper View Post
    ... ... ... Syria is in a state of civil war; people are dying daily. One side proposes more of the same and the other side proposes change; both will doubtless conduct 'witch hunts' if they win. Your solution appears to be stalemate. Then the blood is on your hands.
    (COMMENT)

    Why don't we just let the Syrians, as a people, sort this out? The blood is on Syrian hands --- and no one else. This is Syrian-on-Syrian. What is so wrong about letting them decide their own faith -- their own destiny?

    What makes our choice any better then their choice? Has our record been all that good?

    Most Respectfully,
    R

    Comment


    • #47
      IMO, allowing it to happen alone is a travisty. Allowing Iran and Russia to support this with arms shipments and assistance is a travisty. To them these lives mean nothing more then their own influence remains in the region. Its just plain wrong to allow this to happen when it can and should be prevented politics be damed.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
        IMO, allowing it to happen alone is a travisty. Allowing Iran and Russia to support this with arms shipments and assistance is a travisty. To them these lives mean nothing more then their own influence remains in the region. Its just plain wrong to allow this to happen when it can and should be prevented politics be damed.
        This is the sad reality of the modern world we will be bringing our children to. People are willing to politically grand stand to the last Syrian. I don't know which is worse, total world anarchy with no concern of whatever happens to the guy next door, or people dying before our eyes as long as we can count them. I think we are sleepwalking into a world of sanctioned lawlessness, where politics virtually ties the hands of the free world and evil can no longer be contained, we see this already manifesting with the Iranian question.

        Comment


        • #49
          Dreadnought, Zinja, et al,

          Yes, it is a bit sad and confusing.
          Originally posted by Zinja View Post
          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
          IMO, allowing it to happen alone is a travisty. Allowing Iran and Russia to support this with arms shipments and assistance is a travisty. To them these lives mean nothing more then their own influence remains in the region. Its just plain wrong to allow this to happen when it can and should be prevented politics be damed.

          This is the sad reality of the modern world we will be bringing our children to. People are willing to politically grand stand to the last Syrian. I don't know which is worse, total world anarchy with no concern of whatever happens to the guy next door, or people dying before our eyes as long as we can count them. I think we are sleepwalking into a world of sanctioned lawlessness, where politics virtually ties the hands of the free world and evil can no longer be contained, we see this already manifesting with the Iranian question.
          (COMMENT)

          I like each of your comments. But I think, while passionate and rooted in chivalry (worthy of modern day Knights and Noblemen), it is out of touch with the realities of the 21st Century for us and incompatible with the blood thirsty ruthlessness that is the Middle East (alla 17th Century).

          No matter where you look in the Middle East, there is some kind of turmoil. This region of the world is often referred to as the "Cradle of Civilization." Well, as harsh as it may sound, it is time for the kids to jump out of the Cradle and grow up. It is time for them (collectively the entire indigenous population of the Middle East) to take responsibility for themselves. They need to quit fighting and quit whining. They need to get there act together and start to shape their own destiny.

          The US needs to "back away" and let the chips fall where they may. These people need to sink or swim on their own. No amount of Western Assistance (military, political, economic, commercial or industrial) is ever going to help them. They need to get the hell off their asses and start to work -- building the future ---- OR ---- kill themselves off in the enlightenment of their religious process and save the world some oxygen.

          But we cannot keep beating our brains out trying to bring them forward towards peaceful coexistence and benevolent leadership. Hell, we can't seem to get it right for ourselves!

          Most Respectfully,
          R
          Last edited by RoccoR; 03 Feb 12,, 02:57.

          Comment


          • #50
            The thing is that other countries are already interfering, Russia is making money from dead Syrians.

            Comment


            • #51
              My 2c.

              Direct involvement in Syria is dramatically more messy than in Libya. Given the ethnic/religious mix & especially where Syria is, direct involvement by western powers has the potential to get them involved in a HUGE mess that spills beyond Syria's borders in a way Libya was never going to. I would be extremely surprised to see any direct military action from western nations. Just too many potential problems. This doesn't mean 'do nothing'. Send arms. Small arms, AT weapons, ammo, medical supplies & such. If we don't want our fingerprints on them do it via a 3rd party - Turkey or one of the already involved Arab nations.

              My personal bet is that one way or another Assad is done for. if we haven't already reached a 'tipping point' we soon will. Even if he somehow survives he is seriously weakened. if I were Alawite I would be working out the quickest way to the nearest vaguely friendly border with whatver valuables I could pack. After generations of being on top once this all ends payback is going to be a BIG b1tch.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

              Comment


              • #52
                Meanwhile Russian ships have left Tartus after 3 days visit.

                “The naval task force has completed its visit to the Syrian port of Tartus with the aim of replenishing [food and water] provisions. The warships left the Syrian territorial waters on Tuesday afternoon and continued on their route in accordance with their schedule.”
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Two more USN warships have also entered the area via the Suez Canal. One boomer, one DDG.

                  US Nuclear Submarine And Destroyer Enter Red Sea, Near Persian Gulf
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by RoccoR View Post
                    Dreadnought, Zinja, et al,

                    Yes, it is a bit sad and confusing.
                    (COMMENT)

                    I like each of your comments. But I think, while passionate and rooted in chivalry (worthy of modern day Knights and Noblemen), it is out of touch with the realities of the 21st Century for us and incompatible with the blood thirsty ruthlessness that is the Middle East (alla 17th Century).

                    No matter where you look in the Middle East, there is some kind of turmoil. This region of the world is often referred to as the "Cradle of Civilization." Well, as harsh as it may sound, it is time for the kids to jump out of the Cradle and grow up. It is time for them (collectively the entire indigenous population of the Middle East) to take responsibility for themselves. They need to quit fighting and quit whining. They need to get there act together and start to shape their own destiny.

                    The US needs to "back away" and let the chips fall where they may. These people need to sink or swim on their own. No amount of Western Assistance (military, political, economic, commercial or industrial) is ever going to help them. They need to get the hell off their asses and start to work -- building the future ---- OR ---- kill themselves off in the enlightenment of their religious process and save the world some oxygen.

                    But we cannot keep beating our brains out trying to bring them forward towards peaceful coexistence and benevolent leadership. Hell, we can't seem to get it right for ourselves!

                    Most Respectfully,
                    R
                    *Where as I do agree that we should stay out of it, the loss of life is unacceptable. These men must realize the days of dictators and strongmen are slowly but surely coming to an end in the 21st century. These situations IMO, do not need to kill thousands before it is realized. There is no race or origin of a people that do not deserve to choose their own leadership. Unfortunately, many like Assad and Ghadaffi would rather end up dead then step down and let the country prosper though elected leadership.
                    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by NUS View Post

                      Fine. As i said formal defenition does not have much meaning to me.
                      I'm glad. Happy as a matter of fact. It just shows that how extreme you are. With that you will notice that I did not respond to the rest of your (LOL) response...as it does not have much meaning to me.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                        Two more USN warships have also entered the area via the Suez Canal. One boomer, one DDG.

                        US Nuclear Submarine And Destroyer Enter Red Sea, Near Persian Gulf
                        Not to nit-pick, but the Annapolis is actually a 688i, not a boomer; I'd think an SSGN would've made more sense than a fast-attack sub.
                        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RoccoR View Post
                          Dreadnought, Zinja, et al,

                          I like each of your comments. But I think, while passionate and rooted in chivalry (worthy of modern day Knights and Noblemen), it is out of touch with the realities of the 21st Century for us and incompatible with the blood thirsty ruthlessness that is the Middle East (alla 17th Century).

                          No matter where you look in the Middle East, there is some kind of turmoil. This region of the world is often referred to as the "Cradle of Civilization." Well, as harsh as it may sound, it is time for the kids to jump out of the Cradle and grow up. It is time for them (collectively the entire indigenous population of the Middle East) to take responsibility for themselves. They need to quit fighting and quit whining. They need to get there act together and start to shape their own destiny.

                          The US needs to "back away" and let the chips fall where they may. These people need to sink or swim on their own. No amount of Western Assistance (military, political, economic, commercial or industrial) is ever going to help them. They need to get the hell off their asses and start to work -- building the future ---- OR ---- kill themselves off in the enlightenment of their religious process and save the world some oxygen.

                          But we cannot keep beating our brains out trying to bring them forward towards peaceful coexistence and benevolent leadership. Hell, we can't seem to get it right for ourselves!

                          Most Respectfully,
                          R
                          RR,
                          I agree with you that 'its' time for the kids to jump out of the cradle'. My philosophy is far too many American flags have been burnt by matches and kerosene bought with American tax payer dollars. US should not be in the business of wasting treasure and gold for other people who will next day be matching with a POTUS effigy. Unless people can put a price to freedom they will never appreciate it.

                          However, equally i do not advocate for inaction either. My lament is the inaction that the world has become. It doesn't have to be active intervention, just passive intervention. A strong UN resolution can bring down Assad and his lackeys. Can you imagine what would happen if China, Russia, Europe, US, Africa, Arab nations would proclaim a total embargo on Syrian? How long would the regime last really? The entire military would defect over night and Asaad would be left on his own to face his angry country men.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                            Two more USN warships have also entered the area via the Suez Canal. One boomer, one DDG.

                            US Nuclear Submarine And Destroyer Enter Red Sea, Near Persian Gulf
                            I notice that US destroyers and cruisers are significantly bigger than Loss Angeles-class submarines, why are they not nuclear powered?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Zinja View Post
                              I notice that US destroyers and cruisers are significantly bigger than Loss Angeles-class submarines, why are they not nuclear powered?
                              Assumption. How much crew has a destroyer/cruiser vs nuclear sub? Also how much ammo the carry compared.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by snapper View Post
                                The thing is that other countries are already interfering, Russia is making money from dead Syrians.
                                it does??? how
                                "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

                                Comment

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