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Thread: The Aboriginal Problem - Attawapiskat and the world

  1. #1
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    The Aboriginal Problem - Attawapiskat and the world

    What the hell is going on with aboriginals around the planet. I've just come home from a long stint in Australia thinking that aboriginals back in Canada are far better off (relatively speaking) and now we have the Red Cross out at Attawapiskat community.

    In Australia you know straight away the difference as soon as you arrive in an aboriginal community. They are run down garbage everywhere with people just sitting about doing nothing. In Canada it seems no better.

    Here in Yellowknife there is a reservation by the old town and you don't need to see the teepee to know you've crossed some kind of border. In an instant the houses viewed have not received a coat of paint in years. Broken down cars and skidoos litter yards and unlike the neighborhood 10 metres away they have cut down almost every tree. Whatever happened to being in tune with nature?

    Addictions and sexual abuse run high. Communities in Canada and Australia outright ban alcohol in a vain effort to stem problems. Jails are filled with them and the life expectancy is much lower than the rest of both countries.

    I'm getting tired of seeing it and wondering what can be done. The bleeding heart efforts have done nothing but bred a generation of people who refuse to work and blame everyone for their issues. A glaring example is the death of a small child in Australia who was electrocuted inside a wall. The family then blamed the government for the dilapidated condition of the house. I'm sure the house came with a child sized hole kicked in already.

    Boy's electrocution was 'preventable' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    At the same time other communities are left without proper infrastructure like Attawapiskat but as I just learnt on the news they have been allocated 80 million since 2006. Where did all the bloody money go?

    Red Cross workers arriving in Attawapiskat with aid | CTV Edmonton

    Politics - The Globe and Mail


    I'm wondering if it's time to give these tiny outpost communities some hard choices. Either live out bush like your ancestors and be done with it or move closer to larger settlements. These communities are disgusting and a drain on the rest of us. There seems no hope in these areas. Suicide rates are sky high indicting desperation and sadness. So if the kids don't kill themselves they end up in jail and it's every ones fault other than their own.


    I do understand some of the hardships in recent memory that need to overcome such as the stolen generation and residential schools. This sympathy only stretches a finite amount though.

    Any ideas on what should be done because we are going nowhere and things that are being tried only breed resentment and anger. An example there is fishing rights then natives trying to sell caught fish for profit. Or the reverse racist laws that have kept me out of my field of work for five months because I'm the wrong colour. The kicker there is that my family is close to getting our status back and even then I am the wrong type of indian.... Of course ticking that aboriginal box gives me an unfair advantage over someone who is more qualified. It would be hard not to use that which leads me to feel it should be abolished as well.



    My missus dislikes my hard heart attitude but I can draw so many parallels with Africa it's not good. Is there some sort of middle ground?

    I don't like seeing people suffer and something needs to change but how can we go about forcing it? For many of the youth of these communities it's past breaking point.
    Last edited by Repatriated Canuck; 29 Nov 11, at 20:32.

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    I agree that people in Aboriginal communities need to help themselves if they are going to have a decent standard of living and helping themselves usually involves leaving the dust bowls where they live for somewhere where there is economic opportunity. Many from Aboriginal communities know that as well,they are usually the ones who have left. Unfortunately white people lecturing them on this won't change their minds, it just pisses them off.

    All we can do is to protect the children as well as we can with law enforcement, health care and adequate housing, and to provide the educational opportunities for those who want to do better to do so, so that they can work out for themselves that the should leave. If the rest of them want to live miserable squalid lives, despite the efforts of the broader Australian and Canadian communities to make amens for the wrongs of the past by providing all they need to take the opportunity for a better life, then we can all go to sleep at night with a clear concience. I know I do.
    "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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    Like above - Helping oneself is going to have to be an adopted mantra, as opposed to the White fellas fault.

    Blaming white fella hasn't done much good - and I feel it is an indigenous problem, which needs to be done in an indigenous way, by educated, successfull Aboriginals.

    We go back to the feel good statments of 'if we don't do something, the identities will be lost, communities will fall apart'.

    That has already happened, wholesale languages and communities have ceased to exist, which is why I point out, blaming white fella hasn't done anygood.

    In the worst, most attention getting exhibits, self respect is completely down the gutter - language capacity is interspaced with crude almost as if it were some sort of mating call. Violence against women is off the Richter scale, Substance abuse likewise.

    All we can do is offer free education - and make sure scholarships are there for those that have the capacity to go to the next level. it took the best part of 50 years from the accepted norm for kids to leave school at 12 - to almost expecting a university placement. It's up to those from the community to better themselves if they want to which will no doubt take time.
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    Patron The Black Ghost's Avatar
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    When a culture or civilization is destroyed, it leaves behind a wasteland of poverty and social apathy. This goes for anywhere on the planet.


    Now you might be thinking--this was a hundred or so years ago--get over it! But its really not that simple. There is never any simple way to convert a hunter-gatherer or subsistance society into a capitalist market-system. Usually these people go straight to the bottom and have sat there for generations upon generations, unable to go back to old ways and unable to really move forward economically in a market system. Slowly--as what we've seen with many African Americans in the USA---children and small groups slowly break off of their poor communities and integrate with the rest of society (and again, some of them make it some of them dont). Really thats all that can be done--all that affirmative action stuff is too little too late--the generations that would have benefited are all dead and buried.
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    Taiwan have this problem too, but the alternative is often having them intergrate completely into the main society which would cause them to lose their culture, obviously a problem too.

    In Taiwan, aboriginals are still disadvantaged but not as horriblly off as those elsewhere, they're the only people that can legally own hunting rifles and hunt, which helps a little I guess, and that they're not actually THAT far away from the rest of us (being a small island has this advantage) helps them in that regard as well. Though their culture loss is very significant (but have improved in recent years) most still do relatively poorly though, (but not that much worse off than non-aboriginees living in the same area, it seems to be more of a area problem than anything else)

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    Patron The Black Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    Taiwan have this problem too, but the alternative is often having them intergrate completely into the main society which would cause them to lose their culture, obviously a problem too.

    In Taiwan, aboriginals are still disadvantaged but not as horriblly off as those elsewhere, they're the only people that can legally own hunting rifles and hunt, which helps a little I guess, and that they're not actually THAT far away from the rest of us (being a small island has this advantage) helps them in that regard as well. Though their culture loss is very significant (but have improved in recent years) most still do relatively poorly though, (but not that much worse off than non-aboriginees living in the same area, it seems to be more of a area problem than anything else)
    Mobility is often a big problem for indigenous peoples since its usually economically unfeasable and secondly, you are usually moving away from the other people like you into unfamiliar territory. This probably the greatest barrier to integration of indigenous peoples.
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    Canadian again at last! Military Professional
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    I had no idea about Taiwan. Who are the native people?

    Do they have alcoholism and addiction problems such as you see in reservations and indigenous communities in Australia?
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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    I lived in Australia (wife is a shella) for 2 years and didn' t see any Aboriganie males working in good paying job (or any job for that matter)......hell, the reason I left Australia was because I couldn't get a job myself even after I converted all my FAA licenses to the Australian CASA standards......I was told by the Aussies themselves that " we would give a job to an Aussie before a Yanke". This was in Aviation, and aviation is very small in Australia but nevertheless, I was thankfull for the honesty.
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    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Dice rolls both ways, the canadians wouldn't recognise my AME qaulifications. Were handing back my resume's
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    I believe that the aboriginals of any land are in a hopeless situation. The world around them has changed. To the point that it has affected their way of life permanently to the point of now being impossible to go back. Yet they cannot go forward either in an alien world. And dole does nothing more than pacify guilt and give the semblance of "doing something" to one side, and provide the means to keep living and deaden the senses via drugs and alcohol on the other. What are reservations or their equivalent worldwide? Cages in a zoo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repatriated Canuck View Post
    I had no idea about Taiwan. Who are the native people?

    Do they have alcoholism and addiction problems such as you see in reservations and indigenous communities in Australia?
    Taiwan's aboriginal people are of Austronesian stock though some mix of variety as well (some are closer to Fillipinos, some are closer to say.. Hawaiians.), essentially a mix of all sorts of Pacific Islanders.

    Alchohalism is a problem for them, though not to the same devastating degree as those elsewhere, addiction isn't particularly apparent, most are not wealthy enough to buy drugs anyway. unemployment is higher (though again, not to the same extend, a lot of them have jobs, some even pretty good onces, it is for example common for their men to join the military, there's a very obvious disperportion of aboriginals in the military ). There use to be some human trafficing issue with their girls, but that has been mostly gone in the past decade.

    Recent year developements for them have been mostly positive, the KMT had mostly tried to (perhaps more unwittingly than intentionally) just sinized them in the past half century, but that trend is strongly reversing now, there's a real effort to revive their culture and language. and a lot of their places are now sigifincant tourist destination.

    One interesting example is the village of Smangus, it was famous for being the last village in Taiwan to have electricity back in the days, I visited first time about 15 years ago and it was very backwater then, but in recent decade it has developed into a pretty good tourist destination, to the point where a few years ago their village council decided to form into something of a Communist Community because some of their residents were getting too much money than others etc.. (and supposedly it has worked! though mostly because they're bond by more than just living in the same place and also because they're not a big community.)



    (There background and general history if you want to read it)
    Spoiler!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Dice rolls both ways, the canadians wouldn't recognise my AME qaulifications. Were handing back my resume's

    I'm Canadian but got my scaffolding qualifications in Australia and am running into walls getting work in my field. Years of scaffolding in mines is getting me nowhere. Fun part is I'm over qualified for town work as they know I'll quit first chance I get to get into the mines. Five months off work so far........ I've had a job since my first job at 10 years old delivering morning papers from my bike. I've never been off work this long in 22 years.


    Anyway, on topic.

    Ottawa takes financial control of Attawapiskat and the natives are crying about it. 80 MILLION since 06 for 2000 people and their houses are trashed. I've been seeing images of some of the houses where there are holes in walls etc. Those holes did not get there by magic so I am beginning to get more and more angry over it. First off where did the money go second why are the people still living there? There are no jobs and the only reason everyone has not moved is because every other Canadian is paying for these people. If it was not for every Canadian tax payer they would either move or die. I think it's time to close many of these tiny communities. At least in some of the very far North communities there is mining and oil exploration work to be done that pays very well. I also know for a fact that they will get the job if they take the time to apply even if under-qualified. That is the deal in far North Canada. For example if I have been scaffolding for years and years on multiple mine sites and apply for a job all it will take is one aboriginal to apply with no mine experience and very little scaffold experience I'm out of contention. Even though my job has to be done perfect every time or someone could die............ Those are the rules so I feel little sympathy knowing that they get free money and don't have work their way up for jobs. If a company does not adhere to these rules they risk losing their mine.


    I also can't get an apprenticeship on mine sites North of 60. I'd love to expand my skills and have multiple tickets but entry level mining jobs are open only to natives. Even for a person born and raised Northern Canadian that is a door ever closed.


    Imagine a hiring policy geared to favour white people. Worldwide headlines and boycotts all around.


    I can't stand racism like this. I've seen it directed at my father in Quebec because of his Native look and hated that. I now hate this racism directed my way because a policy favouring one race over another is clear cut racism.



    Aboriginal Affairs takes over spending on Attawapiskat First Nation

    In this website you can see the published financials from the community itself.

    2011 Consolidated Finanacial Statements | Attawapiskat First Nation




    Why where these houses not completed?


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...t-tuesday.html



    Not that I like Harper one little bit but he called it like many rational people see it.


    Harper said the government has spent "some $90 million since coming to office just on Attawapiskat.

    "That's over $50,000 for every man, woman and child in the community," he said during question period. "Obviously we're not very happy that the results do not seem to have been achieved for that. We're concerned about that, we have officials looking into it and taking action."



    Let the racism accusations fly!
    Last edited by Repatriated Canuck; 01 Dec 11, at 18:01.
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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    RC,

    I also get pissed off when aborigines adopt self destructive behaviour, throwing away the opportunities to progress that their entitlements afford them, and then complain that white people haven't done enough for them. I underline entitlements though, because they are entitled to extra material assistance -including first access to certain job opportunities on their land - by virtue of the fact that the land that we live on is their birthright which our ancestors stole. Consequently I don't have a lot of time for complaints from non-aborigines when they have to pay for the privilege of living on land that is somebody else's birthright.

    As for central governments taking over administration of aboriginal funds where mismanagement is leading to poor social outcomes, by all means as long as the money is spent on the people who it is supposed to be.

    As to your personal work situation, lets consider the actual number of indigenous people there are in Canada, 3.8%. Do really think that is enough to be putting you out of work? It sounds to me like the real problem is the difficulty in transferring qualifications.

    Anyway, my suggestion would be that you should just lie about how qualified you are in order to get some city work, then do what you have to to get officially recognised for work back in the mines. Otherwise just come back to Australia, we have a skills shortage in the mines and would be glad to have you.
    Last edited by Aussiegunner; 03 Dec 11, at 08:04.
    "There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher

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    I have no problems with them getting extra entitlements, as long as they make use of them to better themselves. I get annoyed when you hear about them not going to school etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussiegunner View Post
    RC,



    As for central governments taking over administration of aboriginal funds where mismanagement is leading to poor social outcomes, by all means as long as the money is spent on the people who it is supposed to be.

    As to your personal work situation, lets consider the actual number of indigenous people there are in Canada, 3.8%. Do really think that is enough to be putting you out of work? It sounds to me like the real problem is the difficulty in transferring qualifications.

    Anyway, my suggestion would be that you should just lie about how qualified you are in order to get some city work, then do what you have to to get officially recognised for work back in the mines. Otherwise just come back to Australia, we have a skills shortage in the mines and would be glad to have you.

    I live in the small community of Yellowknife, NWT. I've never lived in a place with so many natives before. My status card is in the works but even that will not help up here. There is a large population of natives comparatively so yes it does affect my ability to obtain work in the arctic. Racist policies have been put in place to discriminate against other tribes as well, nice one. It also effects all the non native Canadians who are born and raised in the North key words being BORN AND RAISED NORTHERN. They have no option to get apprenticeships in the mines because they have been born with the wrong skin colour or into the wrong tribe. They have been limited in advancement due to race.

    I'm Canadian this is my country and I expect to be treated equal to another man just as they should be treated equal to me.



    As for lies on my resume. People rely on my honesty as bad scaffold can kill people so that option is out. My qualifications are fine as well it's legislation that is in my way.

    I'll be back in Australia eventually but have been out of Canada so long I'd rather move to another area in Canada without these policies of discrimination. Too bad though I really love it up here. It's beautiful and very special see parts of Canada so few people anywhere get to see.
    Last edited by Repatriated Canuck; 04 Dec 11, at 02:52.
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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