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Anders Breivik ,declared insane .

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  • #46
    Originally posted by snapper View Post
    My problem is not with the Norwegian justice system; which I know nothing of, but with the medical diagnosis. If I have flu or malaria I am 'ill'... ok I can see that, but how does my thoughts or actions make me 'ill'? Isn't this just a matter of dismissing 'radical minorities' who we can't understand? But if they were the overwhelming majority would I be 'insane' for thinking as I do?
    OK Snapper, have it your way. Brevik isn't crazy, he is just part of the spectrum of sane right wing opinion who happened to choose a socially awkward method to express his opinion. No news to me. Definitions of sanity & insanity always carry social component. There are still people in America trying to have homosexuality reinstated to the list of psychiatric illnesses. Unfortunately racism isn't yet there.
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    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #47
      Everybody's crazy.That's normal

      Let's not forget those who used the tragedy to paint their oposition as blood thirsty Breivik wannabees.Let's also not forget those who liked to be more equal than others by pointing THEY were lefties,like the victims,thus they were double struck.Unlike mere humans who are entitled only to one outburst of compassion.
      Breivik is a wacko.But the above points to a kind of mass persecutory delusion.Yep,a form of schizofrenia.Sadly,nobody will investigate those types.Way too many of them at large.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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      • #48
        Originally posted by crooks View Post
        There's nothing to be gained from killing him. .
        There's nothing to be gained from keeping him alive either.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
          Everybody's crazy.That's normal
          Thats what I say - everybody is strange, that is what makes us normal.
          Ego Numquam

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
            There's nothing to be gained from keeping him alive either.
            Right so then we get to the point of is it right for the state to kill anyone, ever? Norway says nei takk, and has for about 150 years.
            Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
            - John Stuart Mill.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by crooks View Post
              Right so then we get to the point of is it right for the state to kill anyone, ever? Norway says nei takk, and has for about 150 years.
              My state regularly kills people. From Afghan/Pakistanis to violent criminals shot in the street to people with treatable illnesses where the hospitals consider the treatment too expensive. Yours?
              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

              Leibniz

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                My state regularly kills people. From Afghan/Pakistanis to violent criminals shot in the street to people with treatable illnesses where the hospitals consider the treatment too expensive. Yours?
                This state has no military deployments bar peacekeeping, has an unarmed police force (and a low rate of crime, whodathunkit?) and a health service where biggest cause of innocents dying is just lack of the newest treatments rather than expense.

                In any case, all the examples are red herrings and none of the examples involve using the judicial system as an instrument of death, for no positive purpose whatsoever. This is settled law in Norway (and NZ).
                Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                - John Stuart Mill.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by crooks View Post
                  This state has no military deployments bar peacekeeping, has an unarmed police force (and a low rate of crime, whodathunkit?) and a health service where biggest cause of innocents dying is just lack of the newest treatments rather than expense.

                  In any case, all the examples are red herrings and none of the examples involve using the judicial system as an instrument of death, for no positive purpose whatsoever. This is settled law in Norway (and NZ).
                  Your peacekeepers killed over 300 in the Congo, shoot criminals and Marie O’Connor estimated 14,000 people die each year due to lack of or poor treatment.
                  It is entirely pertinent since both your and my state make decisions to kill people on a regular basis on cost, crime and dogma.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

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                  • #54
                    Parihaka the problem with having different strokes for different folks in the judicial realm is that it gets abused by the people in charge. Politicians will readily jump on the bandwagon of a persons tribulations and ride that person into the abyss for political gain. Guilt or Innocence does not matter to them, political career does. Once you get rolling down the slope of selective justice more innocent people get mowed down then guilty for the sake of marketing. Presumption of innocense is already politically on the curb and skirted around by vote hungry politicians. This is not about Breivik.

                    I think Norwegians did the right thing, the laws they have are applicable that's it no matter how horrible the situation.

                    There was a story about how in soviet union they started selective application of the law during Khrushchev reign on small business people whom basically were involved in commerce (which was against the law) 'speculation'. What happened was there was a selective application to a few a group which exchanged money and they were sentenced to be shot based on backward application of the law. Ergo they got sentenced in the beginning for years and then later on that was not enough so they made a "selective application based on aggregeousness of transgression" to simply take their lives even though there was no law for it.

                    Later on about 3000+ more small business people were executed even though there was no law for it but they were trying to make careers so they petitioned for "selective application of law in their case" as well.
                    http://translate.google.com/translat...25B2%25D0%25B0
                    Last edited by cyppok; 03 Dec 11,, 20:10.
                    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                      Your peacekeepers killed over 300 in the Congo, shoot criminals and Marie O’Connor estimated 14,000 people die each year due to lack of or poor treatment.
                      It is entirely pertinent since both your and my state make decisions to kill people on a regular basis on cost, crime and dogma.
                      I was being facetious, what you say was something of a "well duh" statement. The fact that you had to get such rusty links does show the slight truths of artful over-statement mind you.

                      It has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty, the deliberate execution of a citizen for crime, which both your state and mine has agreed is an unacceptable form of punishment. Thousands die from health bureaucracy and mal-coverage every year, the way we stop that is a more equitable system and smashing the underlying causes, poverty and income inequality. The way we stop Irish soldiers killing (enemy combatants) is by bringing them home. They way we stop the state from executing people is by not executing them. Simples.
                      Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                      - John Stuart Mill.

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                      • #56
                        Sorry to nitpick,but there is something fascinating(and to a point revealing)about the way you put it.''The way we stop Irish soldiers killing (enemy combatants) is by bringing them home.'' Heavens,I'm such a weirdo to think that you can stop the killing by winning.
                        Those who know don't speak
                        He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                          Sorry to nitpick,but there is something fascinating(and to a point revealing)about the way you put it.''The way we stop Irish soldiers killing (enemy combatants) is by bringing them home.'' Heavens,I'm such a weirdo to think that you can stop the killing by winning.
                          Not at all - tribe a v tribe b ain't our war to win. For me we should deploy our troops only in defence of this island, if our men die that's something every Irishman should and is willing to die for, our homes, wives and children. I don't want them sent trying to fix the world's problems: I'll leave that to the Interventionists of the world, who preach war and who's children are never sent home in a box (or in the trenches to begin with). Funny how that works, non?
                          Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                          - John Stuart Mill.

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                          • #58
                            That's a reasonable statement. There's however something else http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/int...tml#post847370

                            To be honest,I've yet to see which case is stronger.I guess it depends on whether rationality or emotion is stronger in men as well as in societies at a particular moment.
                            Those who know don't speak
                            He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by crooks View Post
                              I was being facetious, what you say was something of a "well duh" statement. The fact that you had to get such rusty links does show the slight truths of artful over-statement mind you.

                              It has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty, the deliberate execution of a citizen for crime, which both your state and mine has agreed is an unacceptable form of punishment. Thousands die from health bureaucracy and mal-coverage every year, the way we stop that is a more equitable system and smashing the underlying causes, poverty and income inequality. The way we stop Irish soldiers killing (enemy combatants) is by bringing them home. They way we stop the state from executing people is by not executing them. Simples.
                              Yet your country both actively and tacitly supported the killing of thousands of Northern Ireland civilians for decades. Save me the false fables about the state of your national morality please.
                              So what is it about those north of the border that precludes them from the right not to be killed by the state ever? Or are Norwegian mass murderers worth more than your Northern bretheren?
                              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                              Leibniz

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                              • #60
                                It seems that the psychos,uhh,I mean psychiatrists changed their mind.Breivik is not insane,or so they say until the next time. Norway massacre gunman Anders Behring Breivik 'not insane' - Telegraph
                                Those who know don't speak
                                He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                                Comment

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