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Thread: Balanced budget amendment rejected by House of Representatives

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    I agree. While the US is not a socialistic country, as some conservative would have us believe, it has faults associated with socialism, namely the propensity of voters, especially lower income voters, to support candidates who promise them programs that will bring them free benefits.

    While there are some good programs to help truly needy people, the term needy always seem to broaden and beget more programs. Why work for a living when you can vote for one. Of course, I am exaggerating, but not by a lot.
    While I agree general entitlement reform is needed. The amount of the cuts can be reasonable and slowly built in overtime and things like the Ryan plan aren't needed unless the goal is too continue to cut taxes slightly for most and greatly for some. Modest cuts overtime along with small increases in revenue overtime and we are golden. Even 10 percent cuts in ss and medicare bring us great results when scaled in overtime. We dont need 50 percent cuts.

    I assume you were including ss and medicare as welfare otherwise the notion welfare is an issue is kind of moot unless the goal is to eliminate it entirely
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  2. #47
    Patron The Black Ghost's Avatar
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    I think a balanced budget requirement is a great idea along with a fixed debt ceiling. Taxes should pay for everything. That way there is a direct correlation between what we pay and what we get in return. So if people complain about taxes, they will want to cut spending or make the government run more efficiently. I see no better way to destabilize the partisan nature of the budget debate.
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  3. #48
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
    While I agree general entitlement reform is needed. The amount of the cuts can be reasonable and slowly built in overtime and things like the Ryan plan aren't needed unless the goal is too continue to cut taxes slightly for most and greatly for some. Modest cuts overtime along with small increases in revenue overtime and we are golden. Even 10 percent cuts in ss and medicare bring us great results when scaled in overtime. We dont need 50 percent cuts.

    I assume you were including ss and medicare as welfare otherwise the notion welfare is an issue is kind of moot unless the goal is to eliminate it entirely
    Soc Security and Medicare are unique entitlements because the beneficiaries (you and me) pay into them over a lifetime of employment. We're too deeply entrenched in them to simply do away with them, much make deep cuts in them. Plus they are popular. And I believe they contribute to social stability.

    However, we can reform them. We can cut costs through a combination of administration efficiencies, adjustments to FICA rates, a small increase in retirement age, and narrowing eligibility to retirees and their minor children, to name a few possibilities.
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  4. #49
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Ghost View Post
    I think a balanced budget requirement is a great idea along with a fixed debt ceiling. Taxes should pay for everything. That way there is a direct correlation between what we pay and what we get in return. So if people complain about taxes, they will want to cut spending or make the government run more efficiently. I see no better way to destabilize the partisan nature of the budget debate.
    Jefferson was a big fan of balanced budgets until he authorized the Louisiana Purchase.

    The only balanced budget concept that comes close to making sense at the Federal level is one based on a multi-year cycle.

    Otherwise it's main benefit is political cover for fiscal hawks.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Soc Security and Medicare are unique entitlements because the beneficiaries (you and me) pay into them over a lifetime of employment. We're too deeply entrenched in them to simply do away with them, much make deep cuts in them. Plus they are popular. And I believe they contribute to social stability.

    However, we can reform them. We can cut costs through a combination of administration efficiencies, adjustments to FICA rates, a small increase in retirement age, and narrowing eligibility to retirees and their minor children, to name a few possibilities.
    While i agree some jobs can see the age pushed out their are jobs people work in that really at 65 is a bit old. I assume you mean eliminating social security disability. Wouldn't that require undoing welfare reform since welfare is time limited now( a reason it's cost is not wwhat people think it is) plus with most medicaid cases being children is there a reasonable alternative to medicaid that would work in this day and age? Social security disability for someone without a work history is already a pverty level living. With medicaid that care is already lowballed and excludes many many Dr's and procedures? I agree with slowl;y lower benefits on SS and medicare over time an amount that leaves the programs largely intack like 10 or at most 15 percent which would be massive savings. I dont see where there is a lot more to squeeze out. As evidenced by the medicare advantage plans medicare already has slower overhead than the private sector and we are already going to electronic records and plan to analyze outcomes on various methods of treatment to compare results under Obamacare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Jefferson was a big fan of balanced budgets until he authorized the Louisiana Purchase.

    The only balanced budget concept that comes close to making sense at the Federal level is one based on a multi-year cycle.

    Otherwise it's main benefit is political cover for fiscal hawks.
    He was also a fan of state's rights till then
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.
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  7. #52
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    How about a balanced budget, fixed tax rates, a rigid debt ceiling, compulsory 4% real economic growth, mandatory 2% inflation, maximum 3% unemployment, a 5% interest rate limit, the dollar replaced by gold and all the rest of the accoutrements of a planned economy?

    Sheesh.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Balanced budget amendment is a bad idea. California has one in the state constitution. Look how well we're doing.

    49 States have some sort of Balanced Budget requirement. Either by State Constitution or Statute. Vermont being the exception.

    It has worked out pretty well for Florida. Even without a State Sales Tax. There have been many cuts in the last few years. We are even on of the 4 states that have a fully funded pension program for state workers. And until this year it was without employee contribution. Now its split 50/50. 3% of salary is contributed by state workers and the state matches it.

    That said, Its not something I would want to fore on the Federal Government. They need flexibility, just not as much as they have now.

    On a side note. Florida has the hottest State Attorney General in the country
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 29 Nov 11, at 04:55.
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