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  • #16
    Islamic Jihad the new extreme

    Islamist Jihad ready for all-out war with Israel | Reuters

    (Reuters) - The Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad, which traded deadly fire with Israel at the weekend in Gaza, does not expect a subsequent truce to last long and has at least 8,000 fighters ready for war, a spokesman said.

    Islamic Jihad is the second largest armed group in Gaza, after Hamas, which rules the tiny Mediterranean enclave. The two share a commitment to the destruction of Israel and both are classified as terrorist groups by most Western governments.

    However, while Hamas has recently spent much of its energy on the business of government, Islamic Jihad has kept its focus firmly on the conflict, gaining in prominence and enjoying significant backing from Muslim supporters, including Iran.

    "We are proud and honored to say that the Islamic Republic of Iran gives us support and help," Abu Ahmed, the spokesman for Islamic Jihad's armed wing, the Jerusalem Brigades, told Reuters in a rare, long interview.

    He denied widespread reports that Iran had provided his group with arms and smiled at suggestions it now receives more sophisticated weaponry from Tehran than Hamas. He also declined to comment on rumors that the Jihadists were trained by Iran.

    "What I will say is that we have every right to turn to every source of power for help," said the burly, bearded Abu Ahmed, occasionally flicking a string of yellow prayer beads.

    Islamic Jihad's latest confrontation with Israel left 12 Palestinian gunmen and one Israeli civilian dead. The fighting ended only after neighboring Egypt brokered a ceasefire with both parties, but Abu Ahmed did not see it lasting long.

    "Theoretically the calm has been restored, but in practice it hasn't really," he said. Israel, he said, is itching for a fight in Gaza following last month's prisoner-swap accord, in which Israel released 477 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier held by Hamas since 2006.

    Israel says it attacks only in self-defense.

    TRADING BLOWS

    It killed five senior Islamic Jihad militants on Saturday in retaliation for a rocket attack two days earlier that it blamed on the group. That rocket caused no casualties, but landed deep enough into Israel to set off sirens on Tel Aviv's outskirts.

    Abu Ahmed denied responsibility for the missile, saying this was how Israel had managed to find five top fighters together in the open -- because they had not expected to be targeted.

    But the Jerusalem Brigades soon hit back, firing numerous rockets into southern Israel, piercing the country's defensive missile shield. One Israeli man died, at least four others were injured, while cars and a building were also set ablaze.

    The group posted a video online showing a missile-launcher on the back of a truck firing a salvo of rockets. It was the first time the group has claimed to have such firepower, although there was no independent confirmation of its use.

    "The Jerusalem Brigades really surprised Israel, forcing them to rethink their assessment of us ... I don't think they realized we had that weaponry," said Abu Ahmed, indicating the vehicle was immediately hidden underground after the attack.

    Jerusalem Brigades cells are dotted around Gaza and Abu Ahmed said there was huge demand from youngsters to join.

    "We take some, but can't accept everyone ... It is a question of quality, not quantity," he said, giving for the first time an estimate of the strength of the force. "We have at least 8,000 fighters, who are fully equipped."

    The group got a boost to its standing in August when the new rulers in Egypt started dealing with it directly over truces, rather than through Hamas. Abu Ahmed said Hamas was not involved in the latest fighting and that all the talking was with Egypt.

    He played down reports of tensions with Hamas, which since Israel's military offensive in Gaza in late 2008 has appeared reluctant to go head-to-head with its sworn enemy.

    "Certainly in terms of ideology, there is no difference between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad. The difference is in the methodology," Abu Ahmed said, adding that Hamas's governmental role meant that it was "more vulnerable to outside pressure."

    He said Islamic Jihad's biggest problem was the Israeli armed drones that regularly buzz over Gaza seeking out militants. "Warfare has changed. You can't just hide a gun in your jacket like you could in the 1980s," he said, adding that the Jihadist fighters were not afraid of sudden death.

    "It is a good feeling to be under drone attack. When we chose the path of resistance, we opted either for martyrdom or victory. Martyrdom is the more desirable."

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
      So, Israel is threatening strikes against Gaza over the continued rocket attacks and Abbas is talking to Hamas over reconciliation for long overdue elections.

      I guess the question is, will Hamas and the PA abide by the decision of the electorate or will the previous civil war re-ignite and will Israel try to derail them with another Cast Lead type operation?
      cast lead II gets my vote, Israel is going to pound Hamas and gaza for the actions of Islamic Jihad, but won't prosecute the residents of Itamar...

      Comment


      • #18
        It looks like dueling media articles so far.

        Z: why don't you put up your ideas for a peace accord and we'll go from there.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

        Comment


        • #19
          JAD, I am surprised by your question. There is no peace accord. Those who were willing to fight for one were killed ... by their own side.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            JAD, I am surprised by your question. There is no peace accord. Those who were willing to fight for one were killed ... by their own side.
            Let me rephrase, I was asking Z to restate the steps he believed both sides must take to reach a lasting settlement. He posted such a list in the now closed thread. Even this old nail pounder knows there is no peace accord.
            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

            Comment


            • #21
              Peace...

              1. Israel fully withdraws to her 1967 borders plus the Golan Heights which were sovereign Syrian territory and taken in a defensive war.
              2. Israel drop the terror label and accept Hamas is legally a resistance group and accept Hamas; 10 year truce with the caveat that instead of the right of return the refugees get paid just compensation- either individually or into a Palestinian general fund and that such compensation is binding on all parties.
              3. Hamas modify its truce offer to accept compensation in place of the right of return.
              4. Hamas agree to end acceptance of Iranian funding in trade for access to PA funds as long as she is a legal part of the government.
              5. Israel release elected members of the Palestinian government in accordance with international law
              6. Hamas disband its military wing or fold them into a unified PA military/police force to be equipped and trained by the international community- including the establishment of a professional secular officer corps with attached international observers until the truce expires.
              7. Hamas and Fatah agree to hunt down and prosecute any other militant group that violates the hudna.
              8. Israel grant the PA the right to prosecute settlers they can prove engaged in acts that would have gotten a Palestinian arrested and prosecuted. However for each person Israel wishes to shield they can substitute a release of a Palestinian.
              9. Equitable water sharing agreement.
              10. Intensive Israeli and international investment in the Palestinian economy to create jobs- ideally with an eye towards creating a symbiotic relationship between the Israeli ad Palestinian economies.
              11. Both sides recognize the others right to exist, existence in fact and right to peaceful secure borders based on international law.
              12. Israel and the US drop opposition to Palestinian statehood until there is a comprehensive peace (since its only a 10 year truce) and agree to a provisional Palestinian state.
              13. Israel and the PA agree to allow Hezzbollah observe status and membership in the truce if Hezzbollah agrees to the terms, in trade Hezzbollah gets the share of compensation to be paid for those refugees now in Lebanon.
              14. East Jerusalem be evacuated of Jews and designated as the de facto Palestinian capitol.
              15. In 10 years if the fighting has ended and other reasonable stipulations are met like the creation of an impartial judiciary, reduction in corruption, creation of a true multi-party electoral system etc then Israel sponsor Palestine for full membership in the UN.

              Comment


              • #22
                Lets debate these points:-

                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Peace...

                1. Israel fully withdraws to her 1967 borders plus the Golan Heights which were sovereign Syrian territory and taken in a defensive war.
                Israel was willing to give up the Golan heights in exchange for peace after 1967, but the Syrians refused to negotiate. Golan heights was not always Syrian. It was inhabited by Jews till it was annexed in the 16th century by the Ottoman empire. The French mandate of 1918 gave the Golan heights to the Syrians.
                The Golan heights was used by the Syrians excellent visibility for OP targets and bringing down arty fire. This was exploited by the Syrians till the Israeli's captured it in 1967.

                What guarantees does Israel get from Syria?
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                2. Israel drop the terror label and accept Hamas is legally a resistance group and accept Hamas; 10 year truce with the caveat that instead of the right of return the refugees get paid just compensation- either individually or into a Palestinian general fund and that such compensation is binding on all parties.
                3. Hamas modify its truce offer to accept compensation in place of the right of return.
                4. Hamas agree to end acceptance of Iranian funding in trade for access to PA funds as long as she is a legal part of the government.
                5. Israel release elected members of the Palestinian government in accordance with international law
                6. Hamas disband its military wing or fold them into a unified PA military/police force to be equipped and trained by the international community- including the establishment of a professional secular officer corps with attached international observers until the truce expires.
                7. Hamas and Fatah agree to hunt down and prosecute any other militant group that violates the hudna.
                8. Israel grant the PA the right to prosecute settlers they can prove engaged in acts that would have gotten a Palestinian arrested and prosecuted. However for each person Israel wishes to shield they can substitute a release of a Palestinian.
                9. Equitable water sharing agreement.
                10. Intensive Israeli and international investment in the Palestinian economy to create jobs- ideally with an eye towards creating a symbiotic relationship between the Israeli ad Palestinian economies.
                11. Both sides recognize the others right to exist, existence in fact and right to peaceful secure borders based on international law.
                12. Israel and the US drop opposition to Palestinian statehood until there is a comprehensive peace (since its only a 10 year truce) and agree to a provisional Palestinian state.
                13. Israel and the PA agree to allow Hezzbollah observe status and membership in the truce if Hezzbollah agrees to the terms, in trade Hezzbollah gets the share of compensation to be paid for those refugees now in Lebanon.
                14. East Jerusalem be evacuated of Jews and designated as the de facto Palestinian capitol.
                15. In 10 years if the fighting has ended and other reasonable stipulations are met like the creation of an impartial judiciary, reduction in corruption, creation of a true multi-party electoral system etc then Israel sponsor Palestine for full membership in the UN.
                All the above and the Arabs must ackowledge the right of Israel and the Jews to exist as a nation. Without this acceptance there will be no peace.

                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  Peace...

                  1. Israel fully withdraws to her 1967 borders plus the Golan Heights which were sovereign Syrian territory and taken in a defensive war.
                  Agreed with the proviso that Jerusalem is going to be a problem.

                  2. Israel drop the terror label and accept Hamas is legally a resistance group and accept Hamas; 10 year truce with the caveat that instead of the right of return the refugees get paid just compensation- either individually or into a Palestinian general fund and that such compensation is binding on all parties.
                  Their election makes them an official body whether they are terrorist or resistance so the point is moot: Israel must accept them as a valid negotiator on behalf of the Palestinian people.
                  3. Hamas modify its truce offer to accept compensation in place of the right of return.
                  Agreed
                  4. Hamas agree to end acceptance of Iranian funding in trade for access to PA funds as long as she is a legal part of the government.
                  Disagree. Hamas can accept funding from whosoever they choose.
                  5. Israel release elected members of the Palestinian government in accordance with international law
                  Agree, as long as their convictions aren't for direct acts of violence.
                  6. Hamas disband its military wing or fold them into a unified PA military/police force to be equipped and trained by the international community- including the establishment of a professional secular officer corps with attached international observers until the truce expires.
                  Difficult for the international force but necessary. Hangs on point 7.
                  7. Hamas and Fatah agree to hunt down and prosecute any other militant group that violates the hudna.
                  Agreed
                  8. Israel grant the PA the right to prosecute settlers they can prove engaged in acts that would have gotten a Palestinian arrested and prosecuted. However for each person Israel wishes to shield they can substitute a release of a Palestinian.
                  Instead I'd suggest that there be a general amnesty in the same way as South Africa did. Post agreement that whether Palestinian or Israeli they are subject to the laws of the country in which they decide to live. So if settlers choose to remain in the West Bank, they are subject to Palestine law.
                  9. Equitable water sharing agreement.
                  Agreed
                  10. Intensive Israeli and international investment in the Palestinian economy to create jobs- ideally with an eye towards creating a symbiotic relationship between the Israeli ad Palestinian economies.
                  Disagree. It's not up to Israel to fund a fledgling new Palestinian state. Of course Israel would have no control over Palestinian tax collection the way they currently do.
                  11. Both sides recognize the others right to exist, existence in fact and right to peaceful secure borders based on international law.
                  Agreed.
                  12. Israel and the US drop opposition to Palestinian statehood until there is a comprehensive peace (since its only a 10 year truce) and agree to a provisional Palestinian state.
                  Agreed
                  13. Israel and the PA agree to allow Hezzbollah observe status and membership in the truce if Hezzbollah agrees to the terms, in trade Hezzbollah gets the share of compensation to be paid for those refugees now in Lebanon.
                  Not sure why you have this, refugees should be covered by the fund whether in Palestine, Lebannon, Egypt or Jordan, and the compensation fund administered by an international committee.
                  14. East Jerusalem be evacuated of Jews and designated as the de facto Palestinian capitol.
                  Doubt very much that that will fly with the Israelis and the evacuation of Jews is ethnic cleansing. Also it places the holiest sites of Judaism, Islam and Christianity inside a wholy Muslim purview. There needs to be guarantees protecting free access to and protection of those sites.
                  15. In 10 years if the fighting has ended and other reasonable stipulations are met like the creation of an impartial judiciary, reduction in corruption, creation of a true multi-party electoral system etc then Israel sponsor Palestine for full membership in the UN.
                  Agreed.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

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