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Thread: Neonazi Terrorism in Germany

  1. #1
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    Neonazi Terrorism in Germany

    Hasn't really hit english media yet, but here's a Telegraph article:

    German government fears new far-Right terrorism after neo-Nazi killing spree

    The German government Monday admitted gross failures by the security services in dealing with a new brand of far-right "terrorism" after revelations of a decade-long killing spree by neo-Nazis.

    Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich said it was still unclear whether a small group of extremists who admitted gunning down nine businessmen of foreign origin and a policewoman had a larger network behind them.

    "It is deeply troubling that there was no connection made between the murder series across Germany and the far-right scene in Thuringia," the east German state where the group was based, Friedrich told the daily Bild.

    "State interior ministers are calling for better co-ordination between police and domestic intelligence on the state level. I strongly back that."

    Federal prosecutors launched the probe last week after the discovery of a pistol used in the murder of the nine people in the home of a 36-year-old woman, Beate Zschaepe, a self-confessed neo-Nazi.

    Wanted by police for questioning over an armed robbery in the eastern city of Jena on November 4, she had turned herself in after blowing up a rented flat in the eastern town of Zwickau.

    Two suspects in the Jena robbery, who were close to Zschaepe in the neo-Nazi scene, were found dead in a caravan shortly afterwards. Investigators believe the two committed suicide.

    It was inside the caravan police found another firearm, that of the policewoman killed by a shot to her head in the southern town of Heilbronn in 2007.

    In a chilling DVD left behind by the two men, Uwe Mundlos, 38, and Uwe Boehnhardt, 34, they admitted to the unsolved murders of eight businessmen of Turkish origin and a Greek between 2000 and 2006 as well as the policewoman.

    News weekly Der Spiegel said they also admitted in the video to a nail bomb attack against Turkish immigrants in Cologne in which several were injured.

    A judge issued a detention order for Zschaepe late Sunday.

    Newspapers splashed a front-page picture of the unassuming woman with her auburn hair tied back in a ponytail wearing a pair of blue-tinted eyeglasses.

    She has reportedly refused to speak to police until she wins an agreement for a lesser sentence in return for a full confession.

    Bild reported that the killers had shot many of their victims in the face at point-blank range and even filmed their bloodied bodies as trophies.

    On Sunday, police arrested a 37-year-old alleged accomplice identified only as Holger G..

    "There is no doubt this represents a new dimension of far-right violence which is why federal prosecutors are investigating accusations of formation of a terrorist organisation," Friedrich said.

    "The probe by the federal prosecutor's office and federal police will quickly determine whether the three known perpetrators have a larger network behind them."

    Media at the weekend speculated about the formation of a "Brown Army Faction" of violent extremists – a far-right version of the now-defunct far-left Red Army Faction that killed more than 30 people between the 1970s and 1990s.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed shock over the crimes and pledged that German authorities would track down all those responsible.

    The head of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, Aiman Mazyek, said the problem of far-right "terrorism" had been "chronically underestimated" in Germany while the focus was on Islamic militants, in the daily Neue Osnabruecker Zeitung.

    About three million people of Turkish origin live in Germany.

    Friedrich had warned after the killing of 77 people in Norway by right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik in July that Germany's far-right scene was also violent and dangerous.

    He told Bild that despite fervent speculation, there was no evidence to indicate that any of the three had been working as informants for the intelligence services.

    However Bild quoted investigators as saying Zschaepe had repeated contact with state intelligence agents from 1998 as part of a bid by authorities to infiltrate the neo-Nazi scene.
    The group is currently held to be likely responsible for:
    • a series of assassinations targeting eight Turkish-Germans and one Greek-German between 2000 and 2006
    • a shootout with two police officers in 2007, killing one officer and injuring the other
    • two bomb attacks in Cologne in 2001 and 2004 injuring 21 Turkish-Germans, one Iranian-German and one other

    edit, PS: also probably 14 bank robberies.

    At least four further bomb attacks in the same timeframe are currently being re-investigated regarding a connection:
    • two explosions in 1998 destroying the grave of Heinz Galinski in Berlin, former head of the National Jewish Council
    • an explosion attacking an exhibit on Wehrmacht WW2 war crimes in Saarbrücken in 1999
    • a bomb attack on a commuter train station in Düsseldorf in 2000 injuring ten mostly jewish Eastern-European immigrants and killing the unborn child of one woman
    • an explosion in 2002 damaging the entrance to the Jewish Cemetary in Berlin in combination with propaganda crimes against the Memorial for Fallen Soviet Soldiers in Berlin occuring the same day


    Since the above article was written police has now arrested a fourth member who apparently supported the group in various ways.
    Last edited by kato; 14 Nov 11, at 17:55.

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    A particularly interesting tidbit that the active three people were on the verge of being arrested by a Thuringian SEK SWAT team in 1999. The arrest (cars ready, SWAT team formed up ready to go in) was stopped by an order from someone in the state government, they're currently trying to find out who. They're also trying to find out who in the Thuringian Interior Minister had a couple talks with the involved police officers afterwards to smooth the waves with the SWAT team and what exactly was said to the officers. At the time the three were searched for for building pipe bombs and possessing other explosives, the trio went underground when their workshop was discovered by police in 1998.

    There are two further people suspected to belong to the cell by now btw.

    Three further unsolved cases in addition to the above are currently suspected to possibly be connected:
    • a 68-year-old Turk killed with a single shot to the head near Gütersloh going home from friday prayers at the local mosque in 2006
    • a fire in a large apartment building in Ludwigshafen populated mostly by Turkish-Germans in 2008, in which 9 people died and 60 were injured.
    • the stabbing of the district police chief in Passau in 2008 at his own doorstep (seriously injured, survived), the police chief being actively involved in combatting neonazi activists in his district
    Last edited by kato; 18 Nov 11, at 17:44.

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Designate them as Terrorists which apparently they fit the bill, and have the military assist in hunting them down through intelligence, drones and perhaps back up for the police departments if they cannot handle it or are ill equiped to do so.
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    Eh, our military has no assets in comparison to what civilian domestic agencies have. One primary problem is the lack of coordination between the 16 different intelligence agencies of the federal states of Germany.

    As for backup? Our state police forces are armed better than say an average military unit in South America. Machine guns, hand grenades and TM-170 APCs on call for issue to all precincts, select-fire battle rifles for backup at every police HQ, MP5s in every cop car, and in my state (with the population of Michigan) alone five battalions of police troops organized as such on call for backup in barracks with another 5000 reservists. Oh, and six state-level platoon-sized SWAT teams. The only thing the military helps out with is wide-area IR sidescan aerial imagery from Recce Tornadoes.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Kato,

    This has recieved a fair bit of coverage here in Oz, including suggestions that they might have had help from someone in the intelligence community or elsewhere.


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    Señor Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Eh, our military has no assets in comparison to what civilian domestic agencies have. One primary problem is the lack of coordination between the 16 different intelligence agencies of the federal states of Germany.

    As for backup? Our state police forces are armed better than say an average military unit in South America. Machine guns, hand grenades and TM-170 APCs on call for issue to all precincts, select-fire battle rifles for backup at every police HQ, MP5s in every cop car, and in my state (with the population of Michigan) alone five battalions of police troops organized as such on call for backup in barracks with another 5000 reservists. Oh, and six state-level platoon-sized SWAT teams. The only thing the military helps out with is wide-area IR sidescan aerial imagery from Recce Tornadoes.
    is there enough activity for 6 SWAT platoons or is it a bit overkill? do they have something to do or are used as extras for Cobra 11?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    is there enough activity for 6 SWAT platoons or is it a bit overkill?
    Four of them are for support of regular police for adhoc mid- to high-risk day-to-day operations (each assigned to one of the four provinces of the state), the other two are state-level for preplanned operations (MEK for supporting state criminal police and company-sized SEK for special operations). They have enough to do.

    For a European comparison: The state is the size of Belgium, with the four provinces ranging in size between Estonia and Lithuania.

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    Patron The Black Ghost's Avatar
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    The threat is overhyped. There is racial violence in every country and thousands of race-related killings every year. In the grand scheme of things, this really isnt all that big. The only reason it attracted attention is becuase it appears to be some kind of organized group with an agenda and that makes good news. Like the Basques in Spain, they dont do much but they cause disproportionate terror through media attention.
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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    TBG,

    Right-wing extremists should have killed more people for media to overhype the threat?

    Politically motivated crimes associated with the far right in Germany are not so benign as you stated. Around 15,000 to 20,000 such crimes are committed per year.

    Germany has a long history of right and left wing terrorism (not counted in the figure above). Not to mention the majority (especially in western states) don't want these groups to gain in strength and popularity.

    People are also shocked as they are told over and over again that politically motivated crimes are in decline (~-15% in the last year).

    To give you a clue here is a map from the crimes this very group committed and managed to be undetected by the police. This should raise a lot of questions about the effectiveness of the intelligence agencies and the police itself.
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    Patron The Black Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    TBG,

    Right-wing extremists should have killed more people for media to overhype the threat?

    Politically motivated crimes associated with the far right in Germany are not so benign as you stated. Around 15,000 to 20,000 such crimes are committed per year.

    Germany has a long history of right and left wing terrorism (not counted in the figure above). Not to mention the majority (especially in western states) don't want these groups to gain in strength and popularity.

    People are also shocked as they are told over and over again that politically motivated crimes are in decline (~-15% in the last year).

    To give you a clue here is a map from the crimes this very group committed and managed to be undetected by the police. This should raise a lot of questions about the effectiveness of the intelligence agencies and the police itself.
    That's my point though. This small group shouldnt be focused on to the exclusion of all the other hate crimes that are so much more prevalent. I mean, with numbers in the high thousands each year, this one group is just a tiny part of the bigger picture and people need to remember that.
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    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    What kind of penalty would these criminals face if caught?

    I am curious if they would be incarerated longer for a crime like this, as compared to the short German sentances discussed in other threads.
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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Ghost View Post
    That's my point though. This small group shouldnt be focused on to the exclusion of all the other hate crimes that are so much more prevalent. I mean, with numbers in the high thousands each year, this one group is just a tiny part of the bigger picture and people need to remember that.
    I'm not aware that this is being focusses on 'to the exclusion' of other crimes - Tarek & Kato might know. What is important to understand is that a group like this can do damage disproportionate to its size. That makes it more important.


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    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    I'm not aware that this is being focusses on 'to the exclusion' of other crimes - Tarek & Kato might know. What is important to understand is that a group like this can do damage disproportionate to its size. That makes it more important.
    This could be a good read considering the right-wing extremists in Germany:
    Hidden in Plain Sight: Facts and Myths about Germany's Far-Right Extremists - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
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    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    What kind of penalty would these criminals face if caught?

    I am curious if they would be incarerated longer for a crime like this, as compared to the short German sentances discussed in other threads.
    which ones? The Woman arrested? The two who killed themselves?

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