Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 50

Thread: Modelers help...Battleship colors for USN BB's.

  1. #1
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    8,407

    Modelers help...Battleship colors for USN BB's.

    Because until WW2 the US Navy did a really bad job at keeping records. So we lost that institutional knowledge base. Just ask what color the USS Arizona was when she was sunk. There are at least 3 good answers, and everyone thinks theirs is the right one. But, the Navy cannot tell you, there are no color pictures, and any evidence that should be able to give the correct answer was lost or destroyed.

    Like most things on the internet, someone once made a statement about the Iowa being the only bathtub equipped battleship. No one refuted it. Then it becomes a "Historical Fact". And people incorporate it in their web pages and start citing it as "Fact". And added it to the Wiki page. And to the Iowa class BB web pages. But no one ever checks the accuracy of the original statement.

    Lot of Iowa Class "Facts" are that way. M21 and I use to argue about them over and over.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  2. #2
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Because until WW2 the US Navy did a really bad job at keeping records. So we lost that institutional knowledge base. Just ask what color the USS Arizona was when she was sunk. There are at least 3 good answers, and everyone thinks theirs is the right one. But, the Navy cannot tell you, there are no color pictures, and any evidence that should be able to give the correct answer was lost or destroyed.

    Like most things on the internet, someone once made a statement about the Iowa being the only bathtub equipped battleship. No one refuted it. Then it becomes a "Historical Fact". And people incorporate it in their web pages and start citing it as "Fact". And added it to the Wiki page. And to the Iowa class BB web pages. But no one ever checks the accuracy of the original statement.

    Lot of Iowa Class "Facts" are that way. M21 and I use to argue about them over and over.
    Not as bad as you think Grape. And yes they do know what color she was and what color the tops of her turrets without the cats were painted that indicated which BATDIV she belonged too. The movies that you see that depict Pearl Harbors attack helped contibute to the problems deciding what color she was all were different. There are even real Naval documents out there that can even tell you how much fuel she took on the day before after coming back into Pearl after manuvers. I have seen this document. I will try to find it and post on the BB board.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Nov 11, at 00:03.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  3. #3
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728

    Modelers help...Battleship colors for USN BB's.

    This thread is to help out the modelers of USN ships since their seem to be a few here.

    Ships colors
    Camoflaged patterns
    Markings
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  4. #4
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Suggestion: Make it sticky.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  5. #5
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Mods/Admin please make this thread a "sticky" before I post any further. Thank You.

    Thanks guys.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Nov 11, at 05:13.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  6. #6
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    8,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Not as bad as you think Grape. And yes they do know what color she was
    So what was the color?

    Was it pre-war Standard Grey #5 with white tops? Thats the color she was painted during her yard work in Feb 41 when she left the West Coast.

    Was it Measure 1

    As per Navy Orders in Jan 41 (Ships 2). Which would be Dark Grey 5D with everything above the stacks Light Grey 5L (But Ships 2 wasn't distributed till Mar 41. Why she left the yard in Prewar grey)

    Or was she painted as per Kimmels order in What was referred to as "Mediterranean Blue"?

    Or lastly Was it Modified Measure 1. Using Sea Blue (5-S) in place 5-D of As per US Navy Specifications in Sept 41 (Ship 2 Rev 1)

    And when was she painted out of her Pre War colors? Was it when she was in dry dock in June at Pearl?

    And where is the documentation to show it? The last part is easy. The Navy destroyed most of their records pertaining to the Arizona shortly in 1944.

    Up until 3 years ago the common thought was that she was still in prewar grey. The new model at the Memorial Has her in Light Blue with Med Grey tops. Red Turrets.

    The big question, if she was painted IAW Ships 1, why were her Turret tops still Red? Ships One eliminated that. All horizonal surfaces were to be painted Dark Grey.

    and what color the tops of her turrets without the cats were painted that indicated which BATDIV she belonged too.
    The front Turrets indicate the BatDiv. In her case Div 1 (Red) The aft turret indicates the section her aircraft was assigned to.

    A run down of BatDiv 1 turret tops would show that:
    Arizona had turrets #'s 1,2 and 4 painted Red. As she was the Flagship for the Div. And had the First section of planes from VO-1 assigned.
    Nevada had #'s 1&2 Red and #4 painted White .VO-1 Second Section Planes
    Oklahoma had #'s 1&2 Red with #4 painted Blue. Vo-1 third section planes.

    All that was standardized in the late 1938. Last revision in Mar 41 due to planes losing their tail code colors. Turrets would still have the old section colors. Until they were painted IAW Ships 1.


    The movies that you see that depict Pearl Harbors attack helped contibute to the problems deciding what color she was all were different. There are even real Naval documents out there that can even tell you how much fuel she took on the day before after coming back into Pearl after manuvers. I have seen this document. I will try to find it and post on the BB board.
    Find the document that shows when she was last painted, and the color scheme and you will be famous.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 14 Nov 11, at 04:46.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  7. #7
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    So what was the color?

    Was it pre-war Standard Grey #5 with white tops? Thats the color she was painted during her yard work in Feb 41 when she left the West Coast.

    Was it Measure 1

    As per Navy Orders in Jan 41 (Ships 2). Which would be Dark Grey 5D with everything above the stacks Light Grey 5L (But Ships 2 wasn't distributed till Mar 41. Why she left the yard in Prewar grey)

    Or was she painted as per Kimmels order in What was referred to as "Mediterranean Blue"?

    Or lastly Was it Modified Measure 1. Using Sea Blue (5-S) in place 5-D of As per US Navy Specifications in Sept 41 (Ship 2 Rev 1)

    And when was she painted out of her Pre War colors? Was it when she was in dry dock in June at Pearl?

    And where is the documentation to show it? The last part is easy. The Navy destroyed most of their records pertaining to the Arizona shortly in 1944.

    Up until 3 years ago the common thought was that she was still in prewar grey. The new model at the Memorial Has her in Light Blue with Med Grey tops. Red Turrets.

    The big question, if she was painted IAW Ships 1, why were her Turret tops still Red? Ships One eliminated that. All horizonal surfaces were to be painted Dark Grey.



    The front Turrets indicate the BatDiv. In her case Div 1 (Red) The aft turret indicates the section her aircraft was assigned to.

    A run down of BatDiv 1 turret tops would show that:
    Arizona had turrets #'s 1,2 and 4 painted Red. As she was the Flagship for the Div. And had the First section of planes from VO-1 assigned.
    Nevada had #'s 1&2 Red and #4 painted White .VO-1 Second Section Planes
    Oklahoma had #'s 1&2 Red with #4 painted Blue. Vo-1 third section planes.

    All that was standardized in the late 1938. Last revision in Mar 41 due to planes losing their tail code colors. Turrets would still have the old section colors. Until they were painted IAW Ships 1.




    Find the document that shows when she was last painted, and the color scheme and you will be famous.
    Why not just ask an Arizona survivor who was stationed in the Mast tops what color she was?

    I pulled this from a sight the below person blogs too:

    Hi Steve,
    I haven't researched the colors as thoroughly as the dedicated warship builders since my involvement with the Arizona is with the survivors, but I'll tell you what I do know. On that fateful morning she was painted in the "Measure 14" twotone scheme of ocean gray (called "5-0") overall up to the height of the top of the superstructure masses, and very light haze gray (called "5-H") above that point. 5-O would apply to all metal items such as anchors, chains, etc since they were on the lower levels.

    IPMS Stockholm would have better crossreferences, but a photocopied chart I have says 5-O would be similar to PollyScale 505332, and the 5-H is allegedly 505330, or ModelMaster 2105 (French Dark Blue Gray in the MM expanded color line). Although it seems too dark to me personally. If anyone can tell me a good MM equivalent for the 5-O I'd lvoe to know!!

    I've read some references claiming the decks were stained dark blue, but the survivors have unanimously confirmed to me that they were indeed bare wood at that time.

    Not sure about the red upper areas on the turrets, but I've attached this photo I took last December at Pearl Harbor of one of our survivors pointing out his battle station on the large model of the ship at the Visitors Center, and it clearly shows the turrets without the catapaults to have the red.

    One other thing to watch for if you want simple accuracy that doesn't appear in the history books often: on the Revell model it has two antiaircraft guns (part #11) to be installed next to and slightly forward of the #3 turret, just next to the stairways headed up to the elevated deck area around the smokestack....the round tubs had indeed been installed, but the guns themselves were never installed. It was assigned work that was never completed. I hope my description makes sense...it's the only two part #11's to be installed on part #15, the aft deck.
    EDIT: I just noticed you can see the empty gun tubs in question in the photo above! So the model shown is correct.

    I hope this helps, and good luck!

    Andrew Desautels
    Secretary, USS Arizona Reunion Association Inc.

    A fast pic of her after turret tops after settling in the mud show her as "dark" compared to the sailors "working blues" in this pic. A much darker shade of paint then what she was photographed in just months prior to Dec 7TH 1941.
    You can also see the outline of a different color of paint on the turret top on turret #4 by its contrasting shade outline. The sunlight itself would have bleached it the very same blue/greycolor as the turrent if it wasnt painted a different color and perhaps a reflective color as the markings for the floatplane airgroup colors indicate.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0139008.jpg

    As far as the turret tops I have seen the very same info, I have also seen instances where that info is not correct when it is compared to dated aerial photos of the ships at sea.

    Pennsylvania did sport the almost exact "blue/grey" scheme that Arizona appears to have had. Both being Flagships but Pennsy did not sport the paintjob with any clarity (color picture) until later in 1944 when photographed in a floating drydock.

    Pennsylvania's original cammo scheme layout (Measure 32) does list though the "5-0" & "5H" colors along with black and deck blue.

    If you look at USN's meaure 14 color it does appear to be the grey/blue coloring that some claim to be "Mediteranian Blue" which is not listed in USN color schemes however Navy Blue is but not for the Pennsylvania class but is for the following BB40 New Mexico class.

    This is a shot of BB38 Pennsylvania just after refit at Mare Island 03/02/42. Notice she has been repainted since the blistered paint she had from Pearl Harbors attack has been "cleaned down".

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013865.jpg

    This is a shot of Pennsylvania in Pearl Harbor with blistered paint before refit and just after the attack.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013834.jpg

    This is a shot of Pennsylvania late in 1944 in the Pacific

    http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...000/k02106.jpg

    There would be no reason to repaint the ships color scheme since refit knowing she would serve the South Pacific campaign on the bombardment line and being photographed only a year later in drydock.

    So IMO, from the information available from Arizona survivors Assoc and photos taken before and after that they would have deviated from the classes intended color scheme then what was intended in the plates.

    And I would be pretty sure those survivors would not forget something like that. They could probably tell you every detail about the ship and that particular day. It would be pretty hard to forget from their standpoint. If they say she was 5-0 with 5-H thats what I would go with beyond question. If the mixer of the paint put more color into it thats pretty reasonable but he probably went exactly by the book since she was as you mentioned a Flagship. And Pennsylvania being one as well was more then likely painted the exact same pigment.

    "Paint Ship" is a long and tedious process. Even just to touch it up.

    Another color shot of Pennsylvania in drydock at Pearl. Note the darker structure aft at the bridge and the light colored upper works. Even the bare wood decks same as the Arizona survivors claim her to have. The BB in the distant background reflects the very same paint scheme.

    http://www.maritimequest.com/misc_pa...nnsylvania.jpg

    Adm. Kimmel was doubtfully aware there was no such color and was more then likely using a "reference" towards that color pigment of the blueish grey scheme.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Nov 11, at 18:38.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  8. #8
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    USN Ships Camoflage PLATES. Do note that these were "Official" from 1942 Forward.

    SHIP CAMOUFLAGE INSTRUCTIONS - SHIPS 2

    Turret Tops. Although it gives the colors, Depending the timeframe will determine the accuracy. It would be wise to visit Navsource and view photos of the specific ship during a specific time period. These colors identify the air group or floatplane group that was stationed aboard. The turret tops color forward indicated which BATDIV the ship belonged to at the time. Some of these photos reflect neither and could possibly be either during paintwork or just after refit and before assignment.

    These are the Pearl Harbor Era battleships only, after having been raised, repaired and refitted all of this changed and from the North Carolina class (the first new ships to enter service after Pearl Harbor attack and the Washington Treaty collapse) forward, these markings were no longer used as ID from above was not desired by the USN (to protect ship movements) and the ships names for the most part were all removed from the stern however they all did retain a small hull number marking fore on both sides of the bow and aft on both sides of the stern for official ID. ID in the war theatre was largely made by sillowette drawings or ID plates made by USN intelligence such as this one below of BB38 Pennsylvania.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013846.jpg


    Turret Top recognition for BATDIV and Floatplane Squadron:

    Researcher @ Large - Battleship Turret Top colors on December 7, 1941
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Nov 11, at 18:49.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  9. #9
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Recogition sillowettes for the Battleships and Cruisers.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  10. #10
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Paint scheme listing, Naval designation for it and appearance.

    Paint_Formulas
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  11. #11
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Another good site for Painting/Camouflage

    US Navy Camouflage in the Second World War
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  12. #12
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    The big question, if she was painted IAW Ships 1, why were her Turret tops still Red? Ships One eliminated that. All horizonal surfaces were to be painted Dark Grey.

    Grape, that transition in total had still not taken place at the time as far as the turret tops go.

    Note this picture of Tennesee showing both forward turret tops in white paint immediately after the attack which is consistant with her aerial markings.

    http://www.okieonthelam.com/tag/pearl-harbor/

    Or this one taken of Nevada in Pearls drydock in Feb 1942. Turret #1 & #2 are supposed to be Red on top and as you can see turret #1 has been damaged. Turret 1 has been patched up but turret #2 is obviously a different color on top. More like a reflective color red.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013600c.jpg

    Or this overhead from Battleship Row showing Nevada turret #4 roof in white consistant with her aerial markings.


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rWJUQcebQx...ng_SW+copy.jpg

    Oklahoma after being righted shows turret #2 & #4 a darker color then the rest. Turret 1 & 2 should have been red and turret #4 a true blue color. Turrets 2 & 3 could have easily been scoured when she rolled over both being in the superfiring positions and possibly scraping again the bottom of the harbor.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013721b.jpg
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Nov 11, at 22:31.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  13. #13
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    8,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Why not just ask an Arizona survivor who was stationed in the Mast tops what color she was?

    I pulled this from a sight the below person blogs too:

    Hi Steve,
    I haven't researched the colors as thoroughly as the dedicated warship builders since my involvement with the Arizona is with the survivors, but I'll tell you what I do know. On that fateful morning she was painted in the "Measure 14" twotone scheme of ocean gray (called "5-0") overall up to the height of the top of the superstructure masses, and very light haze gray (called "5-H") above that point. 5-O would apply to all metal items such as anchors, chains, etc since they were on the lower levels.

    IPMS Stockholm would have better crossreferences, but a photocopied chart I have says 5-O would be similar to PollyScale 505332, and the 5-H is allegedly 505330, or ModelMaster 2105 (French Dark Blue Gray in the MM expanded color line). Although it seems too dark to me personally. If anyone can tell me a good MM equivalent for the 5-O I'd lvoe to know!!

    I've read some references claiming the decks were stained dark blue, but the survivors have unanimously confirmed to me that they were indeed bare wood at that time.

    Not sure about the red upper areas on the turrets, but I've attached this photo I took last December at Pearl Harbor of one of our survivors pointing out his battle station on the large model of the ship at the Visitors Center, and it clearly shows the turrets without the catapaults to have the red.

    One other thing to watch for if you want simple accuracy that doesn't appear in the history books often: on the Revell model it has two antiaircraft guns (part #11) to be installed next to and slightly forward of the #3 turret, just next to the stairways headed up to the elevated deck area around the smokestack....the round tubs had indeed been installed, but the guns themselves were never installed. It was assigned work that was never completed. I hope my description makes sense...it's the only two part #11's to be installed on part #15, the aft deck.
    EDIT: I just noticed you can see the empty gun tubs in question in the photo above! So the model shown is correct.

    I hope this helps, and good luck!

    Andrew Desautels
    Secretary, USS Arizona Reunion Association Inc.

    A fast pic of her after turret tops after settling in the mud show her as "dark" compared to the sailors "working blues" in this pic. A much darker shade of paint then what she was photographed in just months prior to Dec 7TH 1941.
    You can also see the outline of a different color of paint on the turret top on turret #4 by its contrasting shade outline. The sunlight itself would have bleached it the very same blue/greycolor as the turrent if it wasnt painted a different color and perhaps a reflective color as the markings for the floatplane airgroup colors indicate.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0139008.jpg

    As far as the turret tops I have seen the very same info, I have also seen instances where that info is not correct when it is compared to dated aerial photos of the ships at sea.

    Pennsylvania did sport the almost exact "blue/grey" scheme that Arizona appears to have had. Both being Flagships but Pennsy did not sport the paintjob with any clarity (color picture) until later in 1944 when photographed in a floating drydock.

    Pennsylvania's original cammo scheme layout (Measure 32) does list though the "5-0" & "5H" colors along with black and deck blue.

    If you look at USN's meaure 14 color it does appear to be the grey/blue coloring that some claim to be "Mediteranian Blue" which is not listed in USN color schemes however Navy Blue is but not for the Pennsylvania class but is for the following BB40 New Mexico class.

    This is a shot of BB38 Pennsylvania just after refit at Mare Island 03/02/42. Notice she has been repainted since the blistered paint she had from Pearl Harbors attack has been "cleaned down".

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013865.jpg

    This is a shot of Pennsylvania in Pearl Harbor with blistered paint before refit and just after the attack.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013834.jpg

    This is a shot of Pennsylvania late in 1944 in the Pacific

    http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...000/k02106.jpg

    There would be no reason to repaint the ships color scheme since refit knowing she would serve the South Pacific campaign on the bombardment line and being photographed only a year later in drydock.

    So IMO, from the information available from Arizona survivors Assoc and photos taken before and after that they would have deviated from the classes intended color scheme then what was intended in the plates.

    And I would be pretty sure those survivors would not forget something like that. They could probably tell you every detail about the ship and that particular day. It would be pretty hard to forget from their standpoint. If they say she was 5-0 with 5-H thats what I would go with beyond question. If the mixer of the paint put more color into it thats pretty reasonable but he probably went exactly by the book since she was as you mentioned a Flagship. And Pennsylvania being one as well was more then likely painted the exact same pigment.

    "Paint Ship" is a long and tedious process. Even just to touch it up.

    Another color shot of Pennsylvania in drydock at Pearl. Note the darker structure aft at the bridge and the light colored upper works. Even the bare wood decks same as the Arizona survivors claim her to have. The BB in the distant background reflects the very same paint scheme.

    http://www.maritimequest.com/misc_pa...nnsylvania.jpg

    Adm. Kimmel was doubtfully aware there was no such color and was more then likely using a "reference" towards that color pigment of the blueish grey scheme.
    Dred I will happly respond to this post, But this is really the wrong thread for the discussion.

    Your new BB Color sticky is where it belongs. That way we don't hijack the Quiz. I don't want to "Pull a Gunnut"

    Mods can you move the last few post to this thread?

    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/bat...rs-usn-bbs.htm
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  14. #14
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Dred I will happly respond to this post, But this is really the wrong thread for the discussion.

    Your new BB Color sticky is where it belongs. That way we don't hijack the Quiz. I don't want to "Pull a Gunnut"

    Mods can you move the last few post to this thread?

    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/bat...rs-usn-bbs.htm
    Not a problem Grape and yes I do agree to no hijacking. I also recently found some comparisons in paintwork for the ships including the Iowas they may help explain the color that they appear in pictures vs the colors they were actually painted. Much of it appears to be some sort of reflective quality in the paint schemes against their backgrounds such as lighting and water color reflections.

    In other words we can compare two different pictures of the very same thing and both will appear differently.

    I will leave you an example below of one.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 16 Nov 11, at 21:17.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  15. #15
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 May 05
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA.
    Posts
    14,728
    For example: Iowa and Wisconsin, both are pictured here in Philadelphia in rougly the very same time frame, almost the same location but they have been moved (bridge and cranes locations in one but not the other and forward of their one mooring in the second) from almost (sort of) the same angle. The only difference is the weather, overcast in the second one and water reflection which shows them as their normal haze gray scheme. The first one shows different lighting and weather conditions (water reflection) making them appear almost blue/gray in color.

    This is only for comaprrison means but IMO, it seems as though there is definately some kind of reflective quality in the pigment of the paint.

    The New Jersey appears the very same way in two pics I have to scan. One, when her paint job was only a few days old making her a very dark grey against an overcast sky and one that makes her appear bluish grey on a sunny day and water reflections. I hope to post these two very shortly but one I have to scan first. Yes, I said scan.

    Keep in mind though the contrast of colors in the Iowas scheme against the older schemes or Pearl Harbors ships. And the fact that the Navy only used black and white camera work for the majority of that period which will also add to the contrast in colors.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 16 Nov 11, at 22:03.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Inside Cairo's Bloodletting: The Egyptian Junta's True Colors
    By troung in forum Arab Protests of 2010-2011
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10 Oct 11,, 18:56
  2. 2nd WAB Modelers Contest: Dioramas
    By Ironduke in forum Modelers Corner
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 14 Mar 07,, 05:23
  3. 1st WAB Modelers Contest
    By Ironduke in forum Modelers Corner
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 25 Feb 07,, 18:54
  4. The UN's True Colors - from my local newspaper
    By ChrisF202 in forum The Middle East and North Africa
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 07 Aug 04,, 00:09

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •