Should Palestine become a STATE??

[ZFBoxcar]

A Palestinian state is inevitable if Israel is to remain a Jewish state. And Israel must remain a Jewish state (nationally, not religiously) if it is to remain free, safe from terrorism, and free of Islamism. The important thing is to make sure it is not simply a spring board for Jihadis to continue their campaign against Israel or anybody else.

[Asim Aquil]

The main middleEast problem emanates from Theocracies. IF Israel and Palestine are to settle their differences, it cannot be done by a Jewish or an Islamic state. They have to put religion aside and figure out whats humane and fair.

And if Secularism is introduced, there's no need for a Palestinian state. The entire region can start living as one country and both will contest elections alike. As you can see I agree with most people's suggestion here, but strongly disagree with their motives and reasons behind it. You guys are outsiders, learn to stay neutral.

[Leader]

The main middleEast problem emanates from Theocracies. IF Israel and Palestine are to settle their differences, it cannot be done by a Jewish or an Islamic state. They have to put religion aside and figure out whats humane and fair.

And if Secularism is introduced, there's no need for a Palestinian state. The entire region can start living as one country and both will contest elections alike. As you can see I agree with most people's suggestion here, but strongly disagree with their motives and reasons behind it. You guys are outsiders, learn to stay neutral.

Do you believe this has any chance of happening?

Edit: Not everyone in this thread is an "outsider."

[Asim Aquil]

Do you believe this has any chance of happening?

Yes. What's the other alternative? Kill or get killed.

[bigross86]

I'm not an outsider, and it all boils down to this:

A: We were here first.
B: We're stronger, so we get to keep it.
C: We're like the parent, the Pal's the children; we're willing to be nice, but if you misbehave, you're going to be punished!

[Shek]

I'm not an outsider, and it all boils down to this:

A: We were here first.
B: We're stronger, so we get to keep it.
C: We're like the parent, the Pal's the children; we're willing to be nice, but if you misbehave, you're going to be punished!

BigRoss,
A. There are historical ties for both the Israelis and Palestinians.
B. The only reason that modern Israel exists is because of the international community supporting the Zionist movement. The support from Britain, France, and the US throughout the existence of modern Israel has been instrumental in the survival of Israel. I am not trying to take away from the sacrifices and impressive fighting spirit of the IDF and the Hangrah (I know I've butchered this name, sorry), but the IDF would not have had modern equipment to fight armored forces and win without the support of other nations. The Israeli military industrial complex does make very fine equipment on its own now and has for the past 2-3 decades, but grants and aid from the US, while less significant as a percentage of GDP, used to be a very significant part of supporting your military industrial complex.
C. It's exactly this type of attitude that has stymied Israeli strategy in ruling the occupied territories. By treating the problem as a counterterrorist problem instead of a counterinsurgency problem, you have played into the hands of Hamas, IJ, and other organizations that commit terrorism, driving Palestinians into the hands of these organizations. That doesn't make it right and I do give a silent congratulations everytime an Apache strikes a terrorist leader, but Israel is as much part of the problem as the Palestinians are.

[Leader]

Yes. What's the other alternative? Kill or get killed.

Israel declares victory and builds a fence.

[Asim Aquil]

the wall can be bombed as well, y'know.

[Karthik]

Jihadi suicide attacks, slaughtering of women and children, and the spilling of innocent blood should not be the hallmark of any future state.

[indianguy4u]

Can anybody tell me any proof of a palestinian nation in that part of the world. In which era, centrury, which milenia etc.

[ZFBoxcar]

The wall can be bombed, but it has manned towers, high tech sensory equipment, and there are patrols on both sides, so bombing it is not that easy.

[Leader]

the wall can be bombed as well, y'know.

If Palestinians want to blow themselves up next to the wall, there is nothing that can be done, but they will rarely kill anyone but themselves. The goal of terrorists is to terrorize the population. Even if they manage to kill soldiers guarding the wall, they will be ineffective in achieving their aim.

[Praxus]

Can anybody tell me any proof of a palestinian nation in that part of the world. In which era, centrury, which milenia etc.

The closest thing, was when it was a Province under the Roman and British Empires.

[bigross86]

BigRoss,
A. There are historical ties for both the Israelis and Palestinians.
B. The only reason that modern Israel exists is because of the international community supporting the Zionist movement. The support from Britain, France, and the US throughout the existence of modern Israel has been instrumental in the survival of Israel. I am not trying to take away from the sacrifices and impressive fighting spirit of the IDF and the Hangrah (I know I've butchered this name, sorry), but the IDF would not have had modern equipment to fight armored forces and win without the support of other nations. The Israeli military industrial complex does make very fine equipment on its own now and has for the past 2-3 decades, but grants and aid from the US, while less significant as a percentage of GDP, used to be a very significant part of supporting your military industrial complex.
C. It's exactly this type of attitude that has stymied Israeli strategy in ruling the occupied territories. By treating the problem as a counterterrorist problem instead of a counterinsurgency problem, you have played into the hands of Hamas, IJ, and other organizations that commit terrorism, driving Palestinians into the hands of these organizations. That doesn't make it right and I do give a silent congratulations everytime an Apache strikes a terrorist leader, but Israel is as much part of the problem as the Palestinians are.

Response:

A: Jews, not Israeli's, but Jews, have ALWAYS been in the land since before the times of Mohammad and Jesus, especially in the cities of Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed and Tiberias. The declaration of Israel as a Jewish state just builds on that premise. Moreover, Palestinians have not been known by that name till quite recently (relatively speaking). The Jews have been called Israeli's and Sons of Israel for over 3000 years

B:While that does have many truths, it also is not a decisive statement. the Pal's have had MUCH more support than the Israeli's have, both in material given, and relatively. Little known fact is that for a very long time, up to and including the 1973 war, the US tried to be neutral towards both sides. That doesn't include Soviet and Arab support for the Pal's. And whilst Israel would have had a much harder time, groups like the Haganah, Etzel, Lechi and Palmach were operating for years, under a hostile British government without international support.

C: I don't really see the difference between a counter-terrorist and counter-insurgent campaign. I'm not a good enough strategist or tactician to know the difference between the two, but I do know this: If someone threatens to kill the citizens of a country, it's up to that country and it's military to do all possible to stop that, which is exactly what they've been doing

[indianguy4u]

If someone threatens to kill the citizens of a country, it's up to that country and it's military to do all possible to stop that, which is exactly what they've been doing

Thats fine, but IDF needs to look at minimising collatral damage(childrens, civilians esp)